"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 00:15:18 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:




4) The Stanton may not fair so well up against *stiffer* competition


True. But it is a ballsy little tyke and delivers unbeatable slam for the
more 'dynamic' type of music!! ;-)

(I can see why the DJs like 'em!!)


I don't know if I'd chossen any different had I known the price before
hand. Interesting!


Thanks for playing - it's fun/useful/fun for me. The various
opinions/criticisms expressed are *always* interesting and helpful. I like
the Stanton and plan to get a couple more - this little exercise has
helped
me over come my own 'prejudices'!! :-)





Actually I think DJs like the Stanton because it is the only one you
can safely run the vinyl backwards with to cue up a track.



No, a number of other manufacturers make specific 'DJ' carts - Shure,
Ortofon and Pickering spring immediately to mind as well as names like
Vestax, Gemini and Newmark which I believe are mostly 'rebadging' exercises.
Very often these will have yellow or white 'glow in the dark' ends to assist
cueing in disco lighting conditions. Invariably they are designed to run at
a wide range of VTF with 2-5 gm being quite normal. The Stanton in these
comparisons was tracking at an arbitrary 2 gm.

"Don Pearce" wrote


OK, I've used a V15 in the past on my SME 3009II arm, and I know it is
a good cart, so I can only think that it is simply a really bad match
to your arm.


Possibly - although it sounds in no way *bad*! (Let's keep a grip on
*reality* here...!! :-)

Is/was your V15 a version III? I've seen remarks to the effect that the Mk V
isn't much like the earlier versions although it does track at the customary
'V15' 1gm....



I can't think of any reason why two testers - admittedly
I was the only unsighted one - put them in essentially the same order,
with the V15 at the bottom.



You can add SWMBO to that - she says she's never been over-impressed with
the V15 and thinks it is a little 'vague' in the bottom end. And that's on a
number of different deck/arm combinations....?


What is the arm?


Just the bog-standard S-shaped arm on a Pioneer PL518. I haven't got time
atm to look up mass/compliance information and I suspect the word 'medium'
will figure throughout if I did. Disregarding the V15, which is relatively
new, the other carts come from the same era as the deck and the 'SN
preferred' M95 actually came with the deck and, I suspect, was the original
which has never been changed.

The V15 is a good-sounding cart, especially when it's in a 'choice of one'!!
What interests me (and part of the purpose of these comparisons) is that I
have always suspected it being the beneficiary of 'magazine hype', much like
the Goldring G1042 and the AT110E which, worthy as they may well be, are
routinely recommended at the expense of other models. (One thing that is
nearly *impossible* to do is 'audition' a new cartridge....)

I can effect a hot/dirty headshell swap in 16 seconds (timed last night), so
it is no problem to me to take a minute or so to swap carts/headshells
properly and carefully. This allows me to match the cartridge carefully to
the type of music I want to play and reduces this 'one size fits all'
approach that I have never been comfortable with (carts and all manner of
other bits of equipment - speakers in particular).

My own 'general purpose' cart is actually one that was not featured in this
comparison and I may well/probably run a similar test to investigate the
differences between 3 different variants of the *same* model of this cart!!
Is there a specific type of music (or track, even) that would be preferred
for this?

FWIW, I don't believe in any form of A/B testing and think the only way to
make choices with audio gear is to run all the 'candidates' for as long as
it takes, with as much chopping and changing as it takes to pick 'long term
favourites'. Enlisting the assistance of a few impartial opinions certainly
helps - we very often can't hear what we don't *want* to when it comes to
our own stuff....!! ;-)

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:55:30 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote


OK, I've used a V15 in the past on my SME 3009II arm, and I know it is
a good cart, so I can only think that it is simply a really bad match
to your arm.


Possibly - although it sounds in no way *bad*! (Let's keep a grip on
*reality* here...!! :-)

Is/was your V15 a version III? I've seen remarks to the effect that the Mk V
isn't much like the earlier versions although it does track at the customary
'V15' 1gm....


Now you're asking. I'm talking way back, when my arm was a new and
current thing. I haven't tried any of the modern incarnations of Shure
cartridges.



I can't think of any reason why two testers - admittedly
I was the only unsighted one - put them in essentially the same order,
with the V15 at the bottom.



You can add SWMBO to that - she says she's never been over-impressed with
the V15 and thinks it is a little 'vague' in the bottom end. And that's on a
number of different deck/arm combinations....?


What is the arm?


Just the bog-standard S-shaped arm on a Pioneer PL518. I haven't got time
atm to look up mass/compliance information and I suspect the word 'medium'
will figure throughout if I did. Disregarding the V15, which is relatively
new, the other carts come from the same era as the deck and the 'SN
preferred' M95 actually came with the deck and, I suspect, was the original
which has never been changed.

The V15 is a good-sounding cart, especially when it's in a 'choice of one'!!
What interests me (and part of the purpose of these comparisons) is that I
have always suspected it being the beneficiary of 'magazine hype', much like
the Goldring G1042 and the AT110E which, worthy as they may well be, are
routinely recommended at the expense of other models. (One thing that is
nearly *impossible* to do is 'audition' a new cartridge....)

I think the V15 would still be the cart of choice for a really tough
record with huge velocities on it. Trackability was always its forte.

I can effect a hot/dirty headshell swap in 16 seconds (timed last night), so
it is no problem to me to take a minute or so to swap carts/headshells
properly and carefully. This allows me to match the cartridge carefully to
the type of music I want to play and reduces this 'one size fits all'
approach that I have never been comfortable with (carts and all manner of
other bits of equipment - speakers in particular).

My own 'general purpose' cart is actually one that was not featured in this
comparison and I may well/probably run a similar test to investigate the
differences between 3 different variants of the *same* model of this cart!!
Is there a specific type of music (or track, even) that would be preferred
for this?

FWIW, I don't believe in any form of A/B testing and think the only way to
make choices with audio gear is to run all the 'candidates' for as long as
it takes, with as much chopping and changing as it takes to pick 'long term
favourites'. Enlisting the assistance of a few impartial opinions certainly
helps - we very often can't hear what we don't *want* to when it comes to
our own stuff....!! ;-)




A/B testing will reveal the grosser differences. In the long term,
with most audio gear it is not audio considerations that direct my
final decisions, but matters of look and function. Things as variable
as cartridges don't feature much in my listening except in a
nostalgic, legacy sort of way, so I am more than happy with what I
have on my deck right now.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote


Now you're asking. I'm talking way back, when my arm was a new and
current thing. I haven't tried any of the modern incarnations of Shure
cartridges.


OK.



The V15 is a good-sounding cart, especially when it's in a 'choice of
one'!!
What interests me (and part of the purpose of these comparisons) is that I
have always suspected it being the beneficiary of 'magazine hype', much
like
the Goldring G1042 and the AT110E which, worthy as they may well be, are
routinely recommended at the expense of other models. (One thing that is
nearly *impossible* to do is 'audition' a new cartridge....)

I think the V15 would still be the cart of choice for a really tough
record with huge velocities on it. Trackability was always its forte.


Yes, no argument there.


FWIW, I don't believe in any form of A/B testing and think the only way to
make choices with audio gear is to run all the 'candidates' for as long as
it takes, with as much chopping and changing as it takes to pick 'long
term
favourites'. Enlisting the assistance of a few impartial opinions
certainly
helps - we very often can't hear what we don't *want* to when it comes to
our own stuff....!! ;-)




A/B testing will reveal the grosser differences.


Yes, of course, but has so often been said here lately - there are no longer
vast differences between different items of modern kit these days - ie in
*real* term, like cars, there are no real *lemons* AFAIK. My interests lie
with the older stuff (touch, tone, feel, weight, looks etc.) where there is
more chance of picking up with summat which is *not best*.....


In the long term,
with most audio gear it is not audio considerations that direct my
final decisions, but matters of look and function.



Fair comment.


Things as variable
as cartridges don't feature much in my listening except in a
nostalgic, legacy sort of way, so I am more than happy with what I
have on my deck right now.


Which is what, out of interest?

Right, as I said, next up is a comparison of three different variants of the
*same* model cart - my current 'all rounder'. All of which are in this pic:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/carts.jpg


(The clue is in the 'colour'...!! :-)

What type of music would be best for a comparison? Gimme a track or two to
choose from and I'll get as close as I can.

Out for the day now - as well as other things I gotta get a service and an
MOT - might get the car done too, while I'm there!!

:-)

Don Pearce wrote:


OK, I've used a V15 in the past on my SME 3009II arm, and I know it
is
a good cart, so I can only think that it is simply a really bad
match
to your arm. I can't think of any reason why two testers -
admittedly
I was the only unsighted one - put them in essentially the same
order,
with the V15 at the bottom.

Did Keith optimize the load capacitance? V15's are pretty sensitive
to this.

Other than that, my take would be that the V15 being more accurate
than the rest, did a better job of reproducing the audible distortion
that is inherent in vinyl.

Keith G wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote


OK - I'm going to stick my neck out here. I think cart No 3 is the
dearest.

And I'm changing my order now.

No. 2 is second dearest
No. 1 is the cheapest.

How close am I?


OK Don, go again with these longer tracks. The carts have remained
the same (1 = 1, 2 = 2, 3 = 3):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2001.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2002.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2003.mp3


(You'll have to match the levels yourself, if you need to - I've no
idea how to do it!! :-)

Rather obviously so, given that 2 out of the 3 original samples were
heavily clipped.

The second set are unclipped, but have obviously different levels.

No valid comparisons are possible without more work on the samples.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:22:25 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:


OK, I've used a V15 in the past on my SME 3009II arm, and I know it
is
a good cart, so I can only think that it is simply a really bad
match
to your arm. I can't think of any reason why two testers -
admittedly
I was the only unsighted one - put them in essentially the same
order,
with the V15 at the bottom.

Did Keith optimize the load capacitance? V15's are pretty sensitive
to this.

Other than that, my take would be that the V15 being more accurate
than the rest, did a better job of reproducing the audible distortion
that is inherent in vinyl.


No idea on any of the above. As I say, my memory of V15 sound is hazy
at best, and the kind of music on the samples was not at all of the
kind which would expose the undoubted strengths of the V15 above the
others. My suspicion - as I voiced it to Keith - is that there was
something amiss. Whether that was a poor match with the arm, or as you
suggest inappropriate capacitive loading, I can't guess. I suspect the
former as my perception was not simply that of a tilted frequency
response, but some actual problem at the top end.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:51:46 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Things as variable
as cartridges don't feature much in my listening except in a
nostalgic, legacy sort of way, so I am more than happy with what I
have on my deck right now.


Which is what, out of interest?

It is a moving coil Audio Technica OC9. It seems to go very well with
a Cyrus II amp.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

In message , Keith G
writes


Ah, I wish you hadn't asked that one! It's a tiddly little 'tieclip
microphone' (Vivanco EM216) that Glenn booth virtually gave to me (remember
him?) to record Swim's piano playing - I lobbed him a couple of nice 50s
Jazz dupes for it. I could do with a better mic for this sort of thing -
anyone see summat suitable/cheap on eBay atm?

(Those clips needed to be open mic for the purpose I needed them and
particularly to 'illustrate', as far as is poss, the Dynavox amp.)





For 'reference' recording (in the absence of very costly B&K
microphones) the very reasonably priced ECM8000 does nicely, although
you will need a balanced input preamp with a 24V phantom feed, but I can
send you a simple schematic using an SSM2019 (or SSM2017) for that.

Whatever you do, don't use an ordinary mic intended for vocals. They
have a (deliberately) very far from flat response.
--
Chris Morriss

"Chris Morriss" wrote in message
...
In message , Keith G
writes


Ah, I wish you hadn't asked that one! It's a tiddly little 'tieclip
microphone' (Vivanco EM216) that Glenn booth virtually gave to me
(remember
him?) to record Swim's piano playing - I lobbed him a couple of nice 50s
Jazz dupes for it. I could do with a better mic for this sort of thing -
anyone see summat suitable/cheap on eBay atm?

(Those clips needed to be open mic for the purpose I needed them and
particularly to 'illustrate', as far as is poss, the Dynavox amp.)





For 'reference' recording (in the absence of very costly B&K microphones)
the very reasonably priced ECM8000 does nicely, although you will need a
balanced input preamp with a 24V phantom feed, but I can send you a simple
schematic using an SSM2019 (or SSM2017) for that.

Whatever you do, don't use an ordinary mic intended for vocals. They have
a (deliberately) very far from flat response.


Very interesting, but a bit OTT for what I'm doing atm. Thanks anyway.

If Swim continues to make progress and wants proper recordings, she'll have
to stump up for summat with a bit of wire mesh and a valve inside it!! :-)

Russian?

Neumann M Series??

This one?

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug9...es/cadvsm1.htm

:-)


Does it *have* to end up looking summat like this:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~adamcal/equipment.htm


Will I need much money??


(All *too* nice!! :-)