On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:08:34 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

OK, you've certainly picked well on the money front, but I'm not sure
'audiophiles' would approve!!

No 1 = Shure V15 Mk V xMR = £325 current RRP

No 2 = Shure M95EDM = about £25-50 off eBay and about 30 years old.

No3 = Stanton 500 Mk II = £20 brand new or about £5-10 off eBay!! (A 'DJ'
cart!! ;-)

So you would have saved about £320 - just goes to show, dunnit!! :-)


Me mate Shiny Nigel's just pulled up outside - he'll get the same test 'for
real' now - I'll post here how it goes.



Mmmmm....

Perhaps I'll stick to CDs.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Keith G wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:10:51 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote



OK - I'm going to stick my neck out here. I think cart No 3 is the
dearest.

And I'm changing my order now.

No. 2 is second dearest
No. 1 is the cheapest.

How close am I?


OK Don, go again with these longer tracks. The carts have remained the
same
(1 = 1, 2 = 2, 3 = 3):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2001.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2002.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2003.mp3


(You'll have to match the levels yourself, if you need to - I've no idea
how
to do it!! :-)


Not such easy music. The main differences I was hearing were in the
highs - which this is a bit lacking. But I still think that number one
is a bit thin, with something uncomfortable going on high up. 2 is
just a bit dull, and 3 sounds good.

Now come on, tell me how much money I could have saved with my choice
between these three.




OK, you've certainly picked well on the money front, but I'm not sure
'audiophiles' would approve!!

No 1 = Shure V15 Mk V xMR = £325 current RRP

No 2 = Shure M95EDM = about £25-50 off eBay and about 30 years old.

No3 = Stanton 500 Mk II = £20 brand new or about £5-10 off eBay!! (A 'DJ'
cart!! ;-)

So you would have saved about £320 - just goes to show, dunnit!! :-)


Me mate Shiny Nigel's just pulled up outside - he'll get the same test 'for
real' now - I'll post here how it goes.




Ok - you're just going to have to trust me on this :-)

Overall - all good, superb pitch.

1) Smooth, natural, wonderful 'rolling' of the piano, depth;
2) and 3) I couldn't distinguish, slightly clangy, 2 dimensional, bit
more surface noise.

I preferred (1), but I really thought one of the others was more
expensive - 'higher information retrieval' type thing.

Rob

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:34:32 +0000 (UTC), Rob
wrote:

Keith G wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:10:51 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote



OK - I'm going to stick my neck out here. I think cart No 3 is the
dearest.

And I'm changing my order now.

No. 2 is second dearest
No. 1 is the cheapest.

How close am I?


OK Don, go again with these longer tracks. The carts have remained the
same
(1 = 1, 2 = 2, 3 = 3):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2001.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2002.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2003.mp3


(You'll have to match the levels yourself, if you need to - I've no idea
how
to do it!! :-)


Not such easy music. The main differences I was hearing were in the
highs - which this is a bit lacking. But I still think that number one
is a bit thin, with something uncomfortable going on high up. 2 is
just a bit dull, and 3 sounds good.

Now come on, tell me how much money I could have saved with my choice
between these three.




OK, you've certainly picked well on the money front, but I'm not sure
'audiophiles' would approve!!

No 1 = Shure V15 Mk V xMR = £325 current RRP

No 2 = Shure M95EDM = about £25-50 off eBay and about 30 years old.

No3 = Stanton 500 Mk II = £20 brand new or about £5-10 off eBay!! (A 'DJ'
cart!! ;-)

So you would have saved about £320 - just goes to show, dunnit!! :-)


Me mate Shiny Nigel's just pulled up outside - he'll get the same test 'for
real' now - I'll post here how it goes.




Ok - you're just going to have to trust me on this :-)

Overall - all good, superb pitch.

1) Smooth, natural, wonderful 'rolling' of the piano, depth;
2) and 3) I couldn't distinguish, slightly clangy, 2 dimensional, bit
more surface noise.

I preferred (1), but I really thought one of the others was more
expensive - 'higher information retrieval' type thing.

Rob

Sorry Rob, but a sighted opinion after the event counts for nothing.

And as for pitch, that is set by the turntable, not the cartridge.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

OK, you've certainly picked well on the money front, but I'm not sure
'audiophiles' would approve!!

No 1 = Shure V15 Mk V xMR = £325 current RRP

No 2 = Shure M95EDM = about £25-50 off eBay and about 30 years old.

No3 = Stanton 500 Mk II = £20 brand new or about £5-10 off eBay!! (A 'DJ'
cart!! ;-)


Ok I'm back by huge demand (well perhaps not!) having just listened to all 3
pieces via my Boston acoustics pc speakers and pc I would have rated the
same order... i.e 3,2,1 (as Jim rodgers would say) as the best in sound. The
Shure V15 in particular sounded hopefully woeful in the bass department and
some rather awfull ringing in the voices when via open mic. The Stanton I
can see it's 'DJ' interest in the taught punchy bass response.

Shame ya didn't hang on a wee while longer before telling.... but I made
sure I listened before reading to far into the post.

This says one of four things for me.

1) Shure make **** cartridges
2) Shure are a bad match for your deck
3) The Stanton is a stonking good buy
4) The Stanton may not fair so well up against *stiffer* competition

I don't know if I'd chossen any different had I known the price before hand.
Interesting!

Steve

Don Pearce wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:34:32 +0000 (UTC), Rob
wrote:


Keith G wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...


On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:10:51 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:



"Don Pearce" wrote




OK - I'm going to stick my neck out here. I think cart No 3 is the
dearest.

And I'm changing my order now.

No. 2 is second dearest
No. 1 is the cheapest.

How close am I?


OK Don, go again with these longer tracks. The carts have remained the
same
(1 = 1, 2 = 2, 3 = 3):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2001.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2002.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Cart%2003.mp3


(You'll have to match the levels yourself, if you need to - I've no idea
how
to do it!! :-)


Not such easy music. The main differences I was hearing were in the
highs - which this is a bit lacking. But I still think that number one
is a bit thin, with something uncomfortable going on high up. 2 is
just a bit dull, and 3 sounds good.

Now come on, tell me how much money I could have saved with my choice
between these three.




OK, you've certainly picked well on the money front, but I'm not sure
'audiophiles' would approve!!

No 1 = Shure V15 Mk V xMR = £325 current RRP

No 2 = Shure M95EDM = about £25-50 off eBay and about 30 years old.

No3 = Stanton 500 Mk II = £20 brand new or about £5-10 off eBay!! (A 'DJ'
cart!! ;-)

So you would have saved about £320 - just goes to show, dunnit!! :-)


Me mate Shiny Nigel's just pulled up outside - he'll get the same test 'for
real' now - I'll post here how it goes.





Ok - you're just going to have to trust me on this :-)

Overall - all good, superb pitch.

1) Smooth, natural, wonderful 'rolling' of the piano, depth;
2) and 3) I couldn't distinguish, slightly clangy, 2 dimensional, bit
more surface noise.

I preferred (1), but I really thought one of the others was more
expensive - 'higher information retrieval' type thing.

Rob


Sorry Rob, but a sighted opinion after the event counts for nothing.

Well, it wasn't sighted - I listened and transcribed the notes I had
made *before* reading the post. Although, as I said, you don't have to
trust me!


And as for pitch, that is set by the turntable, not the cartridge.

Thanks, I gathered cartridge type and tracking weight have little
influence over pitch. Although I have read otherwise, and an engineer
did once explain to me the (apparently) enormous forces at play (over my
head again*) - I just threw the comment in as an overall observation.

Rob

* IIRC, something to do with the small surface area of the stylus.

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:08:34 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

OK, you've certainly picked well on the money front, but I'm not sure
'audiophiles' would approve!!

No 1 = Shure V15 Mk V xMR = £325 current RRP

No 2 = Shure M95EDM = about £25-50 off eBay and about 30 years old.

No3 = Stanton 500 Mk II = £20 brand new or about £5-10 off eBay!! (A 'DJ'
cart!! ;-)

So you would have saved about £320 - just goes to show, dunnit!! :-)


Me mate Shiny Nigel's just pulled up outside - he'll get the same test
'for
real' now - I'll post here how it goes.



OK, that didn't happen - I'd left the Stanton on the tonearm (3rd and last
one used...) and Nigel spotted it from across the room. (He goes clubbin' a
lot* and can tell a Stanton at midnight on a foggy day from a hundred yards,
facing in the wrong direction, apparently!! :-)

See second from the right in this pic:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/carts.jpg


Anyway, *sighted* he picked the M95 (No. 2) and has stuck with this one for
months now - no matter how I try to throw him off the scent. I finally got
him to listen to the MP3s off the computer where he hadn't got a clue which
was which.....

.....and he still picked the M95!!

After much chopping and swapping of headshells with the mandatory fag break
every 10 minutes, see:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/fagends.jpg


....the £325 V15 came bottom of the pile every time. On a lot *stronger*
material (12 inch 45s!!) the Stanton faired better and the bass put it ahead
of the others at times. (This is a twenty quid cartridge FFS!!)



* Whaaaat....??? :-)

"Stevie Boy" wrote in message
...


OK, you've certainly picked well on the money front, but I'm not sure
'audiophiles' would approve!!

No 1 = Shure V15 Mk V xMR = £325 current RRP

No 2 = Shure M95EDM = about £25-50 off eBay and about 30 years old.

No3 = Stanton 500 Mk II = £20 brand new or about £5-10 off eBay!! (A 'DJ'
cart!! ;-)


Ok I'm back by huge demand (well perhaps not!)


Like me then? :-)


having just listened to all 3 pieces via my Boston acoustics pc speakers
and pc I would have rated the same order... i.e 3,2,1 (as Jim rodgers
would say) as the best in sound. The Shure V15 in particular sounded
hopefully woeful in the bass department and some rather awfull ringing in
the voices when via open mic. The Stanton I can see it's 'DJ' interest in
the taught punchy bass response.

Shame ya didn't hang on a wee while longer before telling.... but I made
sure I listened before reading to far into the post.



Well Steve, normally only Don's up this sort of larking around and he wanted
his answers!! ;-)



This says one of four things for me.

1) Shure make **** cartridges


Yep! Spread the word - keep those clowns off the eBay auctions!!


2) Shure are a bad match for your deck


:-(


3) The Stanton is a stonking good buy


Actually worked out at a quid, if you take the price of the headshell out of
the equation!!


4) The Stanton may not fair so well up against *stiffer* competition


True. But it is a ballsy little tyke and delivers unbeatable slam for the
more 'dynamic' type of music!! ;-)

(I can see why the DJs like 'em!!)


I don't know if I'd chossen any different had I known the price before
hand. Interesting!


Thanks for playing - it's fun/useful/fun for me. The various
opinions/criticisms expressed are *always* interesting and helpful. I like
the Stanton and plan to get a couple more - this little exercise has helped
me over come my own 'prejudices'!! :-)

"Rob" wrote


Me mate Shiny Nigel's just pulled up outside - he'll get the same test
'for real' now - I'll post here how it goes.




Ok - you're just going to have to trust me on this :-)

Overall - all good, superb pitch.

1) Smooth, natural, wonderful 'rolling' of the piano, depth;
2) and 3) I couldn't distinguish, slightly clangy, 2 dimensional, bit more
surface noise.

I preferred (1), but I really thought one of the others was more
expensive - 'higher information retrieval' type thing.



Thanks for the input Rob - the interesting thing is the 'money cart' doesn't
exactly romp it and the 'cheap as chips' DJ cart is way short of being
totally outclassed in a comparison of similar examples.

Simple conclusion? V15 = 'classical', Stanton = 'techno', M95 = everything
else!!

(Easy innit? :-)

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 00:06:24 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:08:34 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

OK, you've certainly picked well on the money front, but I'm not sure
'audiophiles' would approve!!

No 1 = Shure V15 Mk V xMR = £325 current RRP

No 2 = Shure M95EDM = about £25-50 off eBay and about 30 years old.

No3 = Stanton 500 Mk II = £20 brand new or about £5-10 off eBay!! (A 'DJ'
cart!! ;-)

So you would have saved about £320 - just goes to show, dunnit!! :-)


Me mate Shiny Nigel's just pulled up outside - he'll get the same test
'for
real' now - I'll post here how it goes.



OK, that didn't happen - I'd left the Stanton on the tonearm (3rd and last
one used...) and Nigel spotted it from across the room. (He goes clubbin' a
lot* and can tell a Stanton at midnight on a foggy day from a hundred yards,
facing in the wrong direction, apparently!! :-)

See second from the right in this pic:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/carts.jpg


Anyway, *sighted* he picked the M95 (No. 2) and has stuck with this one for
months now - no matter how I try to throw him off the scent. I finally got
him to listen to the MP3s off the computer where he hadn't got a clue which
was which.....

....and he still picked the M95!!

After much chopping and swapping of headshells with the mandatory fag break
every 10 minutes, see:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/fagends.jpg


...the £325 V15 came bottom of the pile every time. On a lot *stronger*
material (12 inch 45s!!) the Stanton faired better and the bass put it ahead
of the others at times. (This is a twenty quid cartridge FFS!!)



* Whaaaat....??? :-)




OK, I've used a V15 in the past on my SME 3009II arm, and I know it is
a good cart, so I can only think that it is simply a really bad match
to your arm. I can't think of any reason why two testers - admittedly
I was the only unsighted one - put them in essentially the same order,
with the V15 at the bottom.

What is the arm?

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 00:15:18 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:




4) The Stanton may not fair so well up against *stiffer* competition


True. But it is a ballsy little tyke and delivers unbeatable slam for the
more 'dynamic' type of music!! ;-)

(I can see why the DJs like 'em!!)


I don't know if I'd chossen any different had I known the price before
hand. Interesting!


Thanks for playing - it's fun/useful/fun for me. The various
opinions/criticisms expressed are *always* interesting and helpful. I like
the Stanton and plan to get a couple more - this little exercise has helped
me over come my own 'prejudices'!! :-)





Actually I think DJs like the Stanton because it is the only one you
can safely run the vinyl backwards with to cue up a track.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com