Say you are a typical recorded sound consumer, and over the last who
knows how many years you accumulated
- hundreds vinyl LPs, some vinyl singles, and maybe even some old 78s
- hundreds cassette tapes, prerecorded and your own recordings
- hundreds CDs, prerecorded and your own recordings
with pop, jazz, classical music and spoken word.

Now you decide to invest the effort to put it all in one medium, so you
can throw away the turntable and the cassette deck. What will you do?

Convert the vinyl and tapes to .wav files and put them all on CDs that
you can play in CD players and on your computer?

Convert everything into MP3 files, back them up on DVDs, and download
them into your iPod or home system as needed?

Any other options?

Regarding the MP3 option, if you tried such project, have you run into
any problems? Are you happy with the sound quality?

SM

"Sonic Man" wrote in message
...
Say you are a typical recorded sound consumer, and over the last who
knows how many years you accumulated
- hundreds vinyl LPs, some vinyl singles, and maybe even some old 78s
- hundreds cassette tapes, prerecorded and your own recordings
- hundreds CDs, prerecorded and your own recordings
with pop, jazz, classical music and spoken word.

Now you decide to invest the effort to put it all in one medium, so you
can throw away the turntable and the cassette deck. What will you do?

Keep the turntable and cassette deck for future use. You are unlikely to
convert all those old recordings in one go! Just start with the important
stuff.

Convert the vinyl and tapes to .wav files and put them all on CDs that
you can play in CD players and on your computer?
Convert everything into MP3 files, back them up on DVDs, and download
them into your iPod or home system as needed?

Simple. The vinyl, and tapes have to be converted to wave files to go to
MP3/WMA etc. anyway. Burn them to CD at that stage (CDR's are cheap now)
Now convert to MP3/WMA/OGG/whatever else comes along, as necessary for
mobile/convenience uses.

Any other options?

Sure.

Regarding the MP3 option, if you tried such project, have you run into
any problems? Are you happy with the sound quality?

Yep, just choose the bit rate/s you ARE happy with.

MrT.

Sonic Man wrote:

Convert everything into MP3 files, back them up on DVDs, and download
them into your iPod or home system as needed?

Any other options?

I ripped all my vinyl to WAV, burned it to CDR for archiving then ditched
the vinyl. I then converted the WAVs to MP3 for day to day use. CD's were
ripped straight to MP3. This took about a year and was a HUGE chore, but
very much wroth it now the job is finished :-)

All the MP3's are held on a Dell Poweredge server in the loft and are played
through a wirelessly connected dedicated laptop running iTunes, connected to
my stereo amp. The CD player and tape deck have been ditched. The iPod is
connected to this 'client' laptop for the purposes of updating the iPod.



Regarding the MP3 option, if you tried such project, have you run into
any problems? Are you happy with the sound quality?

No problems... I only use 320kbps MP3's and struggle to tell the difference
between them and the original CD. It's worth ensuring all the MP3 tags are
perfect as you rip each CD otherwise you'll 'lose' tracks and, once you've
finished ripping, you won't want to go back and fiddle with the tags :-)

Mr. T wrote:
"Sonic Man" wrote in message
...

Say you are a typical recorded sound consumer, and over the last who
knows how many years you accumulated
- hundreds vinyl LPs, some vinyl singles, and maybe even some old 78s
- hundreds cassette tapes, prerecorded and your own recordings
- hundreds CDs, prerecorded and your own recordings
with pop, jazz, classical music and spoken word.

Now you decide to invest the effort to put it all in one medium, so you
can throw away the turntable and the cassette deck. What will you do?


Keep the turntable and cassette deck for future use. You are unlikely to
convert all those old recordings in one go! Just start with the important
stuff.


Convert the vinyl and tapes to .wav files and put them all on CDs that
you can play in CD players and on your computer?
Convert everything into MP3 files, back them up on DVDs, and download
them into your iPod or home system as needed?


Simple. The vinyl, and tapes have to be converted to wave files to go to
MP3/WMA etc. anyway. Burn them to CD at that stage (CDR's are cheap now)
Now convert to MP3/WMA/OGG/whatever else comes along, as necessary for
mobile/convenience uses.


I would prefer to manage just one format long-term, but I will consider
your suggestion if I understand it better. Why is it better to use .wav
for archiving (on CDRs), and not for example MP3? Do you see the .wav
standard as more long-lived?

And if the .wav files are only for archiving, not for playing, why not
store them on DVDs, to save on storage volume?

"Sonic Man" wrote in message

Say you are a typical recorded sound consumer, and over the last who
knows how many years you accumulated
- hundreds vinyl LPs, some vinyl singles, and maybe even some old 78s
- hundreds cassette tapes, prerecorded and your own recordings
- hundreds CDs, prerecorded and your own recordings
with pop, jazz, classical music and spoken word.

Now you decide to invest the effort to put it all in one medium, so
you can throw away the turntable and the cassette deck. What will you
do?
Convert the vinyl and tapes to .wav files and put them all on CDs that
you can play in CD players and on your computer?

I see this as a first good step, and a good form of backup and archiving.

Convert everything into MP3 files, back them up on DVDs, and download
them into your iPod or home system as needed?

I see this as a second step, more attractive to you if you have a portable
player that is more convenient to use with MP3s.

Regarding the MP3 option, if you tried such project, have you run into
any problems? Are you happy with the sound quality?

I've been known to use MP3s under duress. They aren't that bad in many
cases, but the gold standard is 16/44 wav files which I use wherever
possible.

My preferred listening format is 16/44 .wav files, and this includes my hard
drive based portable player. I have a car player, two flash-based players,
and a portable CD player that play MP3 files and have limited storage space
in some sense. I use MP3 CDs and MP3 files stored on flash memory in those
cases.

"Sonic Man" wrote in message
...
I would prefer to manage just one format long-term, but I will consider
your suggestion if I understand it better. Why is it better to use .wav
for archiving (on CDRs), and not for example MP3? Do you see the .wav
standard as more long-lived?

What I meant was store the .wav's as red book audio CD's. Yes, I do see that
standard as more long lived. It's been around for over 20 years now, and no
sign of going anywhere soon. Unlike any of the other formats.
And when you want to change format's in the future, you will not want to
start with a compressed format, unless you really have a tin ear.

And if the .wav files are only for archiving, not for playing, why not
store them on DVDs, to save on storage volume?

You could archive the .mp3's to DVD, but then many DVD players would not
play them.
You may not care, your choice.

MrT.

Sonic Man wrote:
Mr. T wrote:
"Sonic Man" wrote in message
...

Say you are a typical recorded sound consumer, and over the last who
knows how many years you accumulated
- hundreds vinyl LPs, some vinyl singles, and maybe even some old
78s
- hundreds cassette tapes, prerecorded and your own recordings
- hundreds CDs, prerecorded and your own recordings
with pop, jazz, classical music and spoken word.

Now you decide to invest the effort to put it all in one medium, so
you can throw away the turntable and the cassette deck. What will
you do?


Keep the turntable and cassette deck for future use. You are
unlikely to convert all those old recordings in one go! Just start
with the important stuff.


Convert the vinyl and tapes to .wav files and put them all on CDs
that you can play in CD players and on your computer?
Convert everything into MP3 files, back them up on DVDs, and
download them into your iPod or home system as needed?


Simple. The vinyl, and tapes have to be converted to wave files to
go to MP3/WMA etc. anyway. Burn them to CD at that stage (CDR's are
cheap now) Now convert to MP3/WMA/OGG/whatever else comes along, as
necessary for mobile/convenience uses.


I would prefer to manage just one format long-term, but I will
consider your suggestion if I understand it better. Why is it better
to use .wav for archiving (on CDRs), and not for example MP3? Do you
see the .wav standard as more long-lived?

MP3 is a compressed format. Something gets lost. Archiving to .wav ensures
that whatever's there is still there if you decide you 'squashed' your MP3's
a little too hard and want to start over. Also if you want to burn a CD
which will play in a standard player, you'll get an exact copy if you
archive in .wav.

And if the .wav files are only for archiving, not for playing, why not
store them on DVDs, to save on storage volume?

No reason, except that the jury's still out on just 'how' long term *any*
format actually is.

I took my dog out for a walk.
While it was ****ing on Mr. T's leg, he seemed distracted by:
"Sonic Man" wrote in message
...
I would prefer to manage just one format long-term, but I will consider
your suggestion if I understand it better. Why is it better to use .wav
for archiving (on CDRs), and not for example MP3? Do you see the .wav
standard as more long-lived?

What I meant was store the .wav's as red book audio CD's. Yes, I do see
that standard as more long lived. It's been around for over 20 years now,
and no sign of going anywhere soon. Unlike any of the other formats.
And when you want to change format's in the future, you will not want to
start with a compressed format, unless you really have a tin ear.

And if the .wav files are only for archiving, not for playing, why not
store them on DVDs, to save on storage volume?

You could archive the .mp3's to DVD, but then many DVD players would not
play them.
You may not care, your choice.

MrT.

Tricky stuff, archiving. If the corporations get their way even MP3's won't
be playable in 10 years time. They have an advantage in that you can store
not only the music, but the track titles, sleeve notes, sleeve picture,
whatever in the file itself. Even at a lowly 192Kbits, I'm pushed to tell
the difference these days, but then I'm getting old, as is anyone else with
a significant vinyl collection.

The way I archive mine is:

Use 2 turntables
Play both sides (just to get the crap off).
Record side 1 while another is being 'scoured' on TT2. (WAV, 48K[it's an old
card]). Note that this is NOT recordable direct to CD.
Scan sleeve during recording (it's OK, the pc will cope!) I have alignment
marks in masking tape on the scanner. Done right you can get away with a
single stich to the necessary 2 images and not lose too much. 200dpi usually
does me, there's nothing like a big bitmap to give a pc indigestion.
Record Side 2 whilst processing image.
Repeat until bored.

Tea

Copy the files to another hard drive, just in case.
Run WAV's through Soundforge (other processors are available), removing
dodgy clicks and scratches. Be very gentle with these tools, the odd click
is nothing compared to a decimated splash cymbal. Do not be tempted to add
echo/reverb/'enhancement'. Back in something I actually understand, an
ancient WaveLabLite, convert processed files to 44100 (CD spec). Then 'top
and tail' them, and chop them up into their component tracks, removing all
silent gaps. This takes an inordinate amount of time, at least an hour,
usually much more, especially with our beloved prog rock with no track gaps.
Taking care not to destroy the input files, rename the chopped sections as
their album, track name and track number. Burn the original, unprocessed
files to CD (marked DO NOT PLAY!), then delete them if happy.

Tea

Load the processed, chopped WAV files into your chosen ripper (I use
MusicMatch, no flames please) and turn them into MP3's. I use 192, many will
argue. Tough. This will not only make hi-tec MP3's out of your old vinyl, it
will sort them into their appropriate place via the WAV file name.
MP3's have a 'hidden' section, known as tags (ID3V2, don't argue). Once
ripped, I open the track tags and add in the scanned sleeve, the year, the
engineer, whatever. This is where MP3's fall down, as you only need this
stuff once per album, but I add it in to every track as space is cheap these
days. There is no decent 'full-album' MP3 format.

Finally, I print out a cover and inner from the tags I've entered (the
crappest part of MMJB this is) and burn the *WAV* files to CD, as a straight
audio disc. Remember to set a 2 sec gap between tracks if it's that sort of
record. The burner will often give an option to write CD text for the
player, which I kinda like, but takes yet more time.

OK, so now you've got a copy of the raw data and the finished album on
separate CD's, and a set of MP3's to play on the pc/Walkman/iPod. I usually
burn 2 copies of the audio, again just in case. From printing the jewel
case, your room will be awash with slivers of paper, test prints, bad prints
and you have run out of ink. Using every ounce of your willpower, delete all
the WAV's you've created.

If you can do more than 2 of these a day, you're an obsessive, and should
see a doctor.

Go to pub.

--
Despite appearances, it is still legal to put sugar on cornflakes.

Say you are a typical recorded sound consumer, and over the last who
knows how many years you accumulated
- hundreds vinyl LPs, some vinyl singles, and maybe even some old 78s
- hundreds cassette tapes, prerecorded and your own recordings
- hundreds CDs, prerecorded and your own recordings
with pop, jazz, classical music and spoken word.

Start with what's important and what's at risk. If you've got old tapes of
your own material you might want to consider dealing with them first. No
sense letting them get lost if they're important.

Now you decide to invest the effort to put it all in one medium, so you
can throw away the turntable and the cassette deck. What will you do?

The hardest part is deciding how much of your time you're going to let this
devour. It will take eff'ing forever and you may well end up with the same
thing you've got now... stuff you don't listen to and won't in the
forseeable future. But hey, no sense being a pessimist.

Convert the vinyl and tapes to .wav files and put them all on CDs that
you can play in CD players and on your computer?

WAV files at CD bitrates are about as high a quality as anyone would likely
need. Trouble is they're huge disk files. With today's drives it's not
impossible to pull everything off it's original media into WAV files. Doing
it for all tracks might be a serious waste of money. You certainly *can*
store everything as WAV files but all those drives, spinning all that time,
burning up all that electricity, might be a waste.

Convert everything into MP3 files, back them up on DVDs, and download
them into your iPod or home system as needed?

If you're a purist you might want to then burn those WAV files onto
traditional Audio CD format discs. This would make them usable on
everything that handles recordable CDs.

Any other options?

Regarding the MP3 option, if you tried such project, have you run into
any problems? Are you happy with the sound quality?

The tipping point between good listening quality and maximizing storage
space for MP3 seems to be at around 192k. Lower than that and even someone
with a tin ear will detect the artifacts. For some material 192k can be
insufficient and end up having a slightly 'tinny' sound. Most material
listened to anything but very high quality headphones will sound "ok" at
this rate. Going higher is up to you, simply budget for the disk space.
Other formats that are 'lossless' like FLAC might be worth considering. But
if you're already burning the WAV copy to the audio CD format then having
better quality need only be used when the digitizing for a track didn't cut
it. This allows keeping "most" of the tracks at good storage rates and only
the few that "need it" at higher rates (or formats).

The best advice is try is and see what your ear tells you is the best for
you.

The next question is how to deal with annotating the tracks. Getting the
tracks correctly tagged is often MORE work than the recording of them. The
typing gets old.... fast. You might want to consider recording them in
large batches and then annotating them later. It's up to you. Just be sure
that before you burn them anywhere that you get tags on the files if the
format supports it. A straight WAV recording from an LP could be burnt
right to an Audio CD and a simple label slapped on the disc. You'd have one
big track for each side of an LP. This wouldn't be very good for
track-to-track random seek access but it'd be a quick way to pull it off the
LP, onto the computer and back out onto an archive CD. You could then later
pull the data back off the audio CD, pick out the tracks and tag them
accordingly. You could do this during the initial process but it's a matter
of how you're prepared to spend your time.

Tagging is tedious, at best. Things like MusicBrainz, SlothRadio and the
like make it 'easier' to find metadata and cover art but don't kid yourself,
it's gonna take a lot more work than you might like.

One factor to give consideration when chosing a 'daily use' format is what
do your players support? It might be worth opening up the decision making
process to include replacement of your playback devices. As in, if your
automobile CD player doesn't support MP3 now might be a good time to get one
that does. Or invest in a portable MP3 player and a car audio integration
device (tape insert, fm transmitter or external CD changer interface).

Things like MusicMatch and J.River's Media Center do make it easy to burn
audio CDs from MP3 collections but none are as easy and just dragging a
boatload of mp3 files right over to a portable hard disc based MP3 player
via usb2.0 or firewire. Decide what your daily use will require and make
sure your archiving doesn't make that more difficult than you'd like. I
mean, after all, if you're going to torment yourself with the tedium of
digitizing all that stuff you might as well avoid making it a hassle to use.

-Bill Kearney

wkearney99 wrote:
Say you are a typical recorded sound consumer, and over the last who
knows how many years you accumulated
- hundreds vinyl LPs, some vinyl singles, and maybe even some old 78s
- hundreds cassette tapes, prerecorded and your own recordings
- hundreds CDs, prerecorded and your own recordings
with pop, jazz, classical music and spoken word.


Start with what's important and what's at risk. If you've got old tapes of
your own material you might want to consider dealing with them first. No
sense letting them get lost if they're important.


Now you decide to invest the effort to put it all in one medium, so you
can throw away the turntable and the cassette deck. What will you do?


The hardest part is deciding how much of your time you're going to let this
devour. It will take eff'ing forever and you may well end up with the same
thing you've got now... stuff you don't listen to and won't in the
forseeable future. But hey, no sense being a pessimist.


Convert the vinyl and tapes to .wav files and put them all on CDs that
you can play in CD players and on your computer?


WAV files at CD bitrates are about as high a quality as anyone would likely
need. Trouble is they're huge disk files. With today's drives it's not
impossible to pull everything off it's original media into WAV files. Doing
it for all tracks might be a serious waste of money. You certainly *can*
store everything as WAV files but all those drives, spinning all that time,
burning up all that electricity, might be a waste.


Convert everything into MP3 files, back them up on DVDs, and download
them into your iPod or home system as needed?


If you're a purist you might want to then burn those WAV files onto
traditional Audio CD format discs. This would make them usable on
everything that handles recordable CDs.


Any other options?

Regarding the MP3 option, if you tried such project, have you run into
any problems? Are you happy with the sound quality?


The tipping point between good listening quality and maximizing storage
space for MP3 seems to be at around 192k. Lower than that and even someone
with a tin ear will detect the artifacts. For some material 192k can be
insufficient and end up having a slightly 'tinny' sound. Most material
listened to anything but very high quality headphones will sound "ok" at
this rate. Going higher is up to you, simply budget for the disk space.
Other formats that are 'lossless' like FLAC might be worth considering. But
if you're already burning the WAV copy to the audio CD format then having
better quality need only be used when the digitizing for a track didn't cut
it. This allows keeping "most" of the tracks at good storage rates and only
the few that "need it" at higher rates (or formats).

The best advice is try is and see what your ear tells you is the best for
you.

The next question is how to deal with annotating the tracks. Getting the
tracks correctly tagged is often MORE work than the recording of them. The
typing gets old.... fast. You might want to consider recording them in
large batches and then annotating them later. It's up to you. Just be sure
that before you burn them anywhere that you get tags on the files if the
format supports it. A straight WAV recording from an LP could be burnt
right to an Audio CD and a simple label slapped on the disc. You'd have one
big track for each side of an LP. This wouldn't be very good for
track-to-track random seek access but it'd be a quick way to pull it off the
LP, onto the computer and back out onto an archive CD. You could then later
pull the data back off the audio CD, pick out the tracks and tag them
accordingly. You could do this during the initial process but it's a matter
of how you're prepared to spend your time.

Tagging is tedious, at best. Things like MusicBrainz, SlothRadio and the
like make it 'easier' to find metadata and cover art but don't kid yourself,
it's gonna take a lot more work than you might like.

One factor to give consideration when chosing a 'daily use' format is what
do your players support? It might be worth opening up the decision making
process to include replacement of your playback devices. As in, if your
automobile CD player doesn't support MP3 now might be a good time to get one
that does. Or invest in a portable MP3 player and a car audio integration
device (tape insert, fm transmitter or external CD changer interface).

Things like MusicMatch and J.River's Media Center do make it easy to burn
audio CDs from MP3 collections but none are as easy and just dragging a
boatload of mp3 files right over to a portable hard disc based MP3 player
via usb2.0 or firewire. Decide what your daily use will require and make
sure your archiving doesn't make that more difficult than you'd like. I
mean, after all, if you're going to torment yourself with the tedium of
digitizing all that stuff you might as well avoid making it a hassle to use.

-Bill Kearney


Excellent points. I'd recommend two bits of software (having archived
thousands of songs):

http://www.poikosoft.com/ - so good I actually paid for it.
http://www.our-class.net/mmchristen/...?file=ccc.html - almost
superb and free.

Rob