On 28 Oct 2004 14:49:52 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

The main reason valves & vinyl is better is because I ****ING SAY SO!

My approach is more academic. I throw a coin up, heads for valve, tails for ss.
If it comes down tails, I throw the coin up again.

LOL! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:46:09 +0100, Chris Morriss
wrote:

In message , Dave xxxxx
writes
Chris Morriss wrote: or got someone to do it for him

; the awesome level
of ignorance in what passes among the Yahoos as learning never fails
to impress.

"Yahoos" like that :-)

A reader of Swift I see!

But a mind of Lilliputian dimensions...... :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:22:16 +0100, "fredbloggs"
wrote:

Hmm

bad hair day eh?

Nah, just a hairy-arsed ex-trucker who can't stand that nobody
believes his venomous bull****.

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Is because I ****ING SAY SO!

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:24:11 +0100, Eiron wrote:

fredbloggs wrote:

bad hair day eh?

In a Lon Chaney Jr. manner of speaking.
It was a full moon last night.

Chuckle. :-)

So, you've met Keith, have you? :-)

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:19:46 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Is because I ****ING SAY SO!

(huge Snip)

Keith! Have you been at the cooking sherry again? :-=))))


Nope (I'm totally tea, azittapens) it's called a 'wake up call'....!!! ;-)

Aaaaaah. None so vicious as a reformed alkie! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:53:41 +0100, Nick Gorham
wrote:

Keith G wrote:
"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Is because I ****ING SAY SO!


(huge Snip)

Keith! Have you been at the cooking sherry again? :-=))))



Nope (I'm totally tea, azittapens) it's called a 'wake up call'....!!! ;-)






Maybe I am missing something here, but there seems to be two camps, both
trying to claim ownership of the word better (well three at least, as
valve and vinyl are not together for all). But the problem seems to be
no one has talked about what they are better AT.

We have one group of people, who tend (understandably, to be from the
pro audio world) who argue that the better amplifier is one that has the
least effect on the signal, other than making it bigger (or changing it
from a voltage to a current source, anyway). And its easy to see why
this is a good thing, especially for use in monitoring situations. And
they argue (with merit) that they think this should also be the goal for
home use as well. I don't think that anyone on the NG would argue that
its unlikely for a valve amplifier to measure as well as a SS one.

The same goes for CD, it can be shown that the format is more than
adequate for audio reproduction, and the bandwidth and resolution is
more than good enough to produce on their outputs a analogue of what
went into the production of the CD.

Then we have the other group, that argue, that the better amplifier is
the one, that allows the ear/mind to recreate the illusion of the
original performance (cos thats all it is a illusion, there is no
performer there, its just a few things moving, and so moving the air).
In this group (And I place myself in there as well), the use of valves,
in some way (and Andy has expressed this better than I can) allows this
illusion to be much more convincing.

And again the same can be said for vinyl, I much prefer listening to
vinyl, and think (as others such as Keith do), that the resultant sound
is more engaging, and produces a stronger effect of "being there". but I
don't for one minute think that in absolute terms the incredibly crude
process of playing vinyl will provide anywhere as electrically accurate
reproduction of the originally signal.

I think valves and vinyl are better than CD and SS, thats just my
thought, doesn't mean anything much, certainly doesn't mean anyone else
is wrong, and doesn't mean my "better" is better (or even the same) than
someone else "better". So I think that objecting to the use of the term
better doesn't work anymore than saying its ok to have a preference.

Can't we just agree to differ, I know, silly idea....

Anyway, I should stop reading this group and go and listen to my nice
new Kontrapunct cartridge, through my work in progress 211 SET, (Yes
Keith you win, I did give in and change from the GM70's).

Nicely argued, although we do seem to have a few oddballs from the
pro-audio world who like valves! :-)

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:40:36 +0100, "JustMe" wrote:

Is because I ****ING SAY SO!

I totally agree.

It's the height of arrogance and incredibly ignorant to assume that you
*know* that another person's perception of a subjective issue is wrong.

However, in the real physical world, things are simpler.

No one can claim to speak for an experience which they have not lived. You
are not me, therefore you cannot with any respectability, tell me that my
choice of hifi, cable, source - anything that I have chosen as preferable -
is wrong.

We could however point to glaring problems with its fidelity to the
source material! :-)

In matters of taste, no one can arbitrate what is right or wrong without
exposing themselves to charges of "pompous, arrogant ****" - hence my hifi
is better than yours P

I don''t recall any such argument being proposed, in matters of taste.
Of course, there's nothing quite so pompous and arrogant as assuming
that one person has 'better' taste than another - Chavs excepted! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

And again the same can be said for vinyl, I much prefer listening to
vinyl, and think (as others such as Keith do), that the resultant sound
is more engaging, and produces a stronger effect of "being there". but I
don't for one minute think that in absolute terms the incredibly crude
process of playing vinyl will provide anywhere as electrically accurate
reproduction of the originally signal.

I agree with this, I find that if I put a CD on after a while I tend to
wander off and potter about while still listening. With vinyl I stay put
until the music stops, something keeps me there that I don't get from a
CD (and I do own some albums on both vinyl and CD).
I'm getting a valve amp soon but that doesn't mean that I'm getting rid
of my SS amp as I can see myself switching between the two for different
types of music.

Phil

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:04:04 +0100, Phil North
wrote:


And again the same can be said for vinyl, I much prefer listening to
vinyl, and think (as others such as Keith do), that the resultant sound
is more engaging, and produces a stronger effect of "being there". but I
don't for one minute think that in absolute terms the incredibly crude
process of playing vinyl will provide anywhere as electrically accurate
reproduction of the originally signal.

I agree with this, I find that if I put a CD on after a while I tend to
wander off and potter about while still listening. With vinyl I stay put
until the music stops, something keeps me there that I don't get from a
CD (and I do own some albums on both vinyl and CD).
I'm getting a valve amp soon but that doesn't mean that I'm getting rid
of my SS amp as I can see myself switching between the two for different
types of music.

Phil

I'm just the same with vinyl, but I do know why. When I put on a disc
I am physically very involved with it. I don't want to lift the needle
off part way through, because I'm worried I will put yet another tick
into the record. Likewise when it reaches the end I don't want to
leave the stylus scraping around the lead-out groove. It is a very
nervy sort of experience.

And of course a side doesn't last terribly long, so I tend not to
worry about hanging around.

A CD by contrast is a very much more relaxing experience, and I am
quite happy to let it get on with things by itself. If that means that
I wander off for a while, then fine.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:21:43 +0100, Dodge McRodgered
wrote:

"JustMe" emitted :

In matters of taste, no one can arbitrate what is right or wrong without
exposing themselves to charges of "pompous, arrogant ****" - hence my hifi
is better than yours P


It works like this. There are three groups of people A) People of
normal hearing who like vinyl and valves. B) People with defective
hearing who prefer SS. C) People with defective hearing and tourettes
syndrome who are unable to prevent themselves from making
inapprorpriate comments to the people in Group A.

Pompous, arrogant ****.............
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering