Got a dinky little mic from Glenn today, to have a go at recording Swim
playing her piano.

I haven't messed around with microphones since I were a little lad (and
Pontious was a pilot) and I have to say it's been a hoot so far, tripping
over spare kit and recording the resulting outburst, recording silence with
the mic switched off and recording the neighbour's lawnmower (patio door
open) kinda thing!

Anyway, in case anyone is interested, I've posted a couple of tracks of her
grinding out a bit of JSB for comparison - one is on a Korg electronic piano
hooked straight into the computer, the other is a 'real' piano recorded with
the open mic:


http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keith_g/show/Korg.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keith_g/show/Piano.mp3


If anyone has any comments/suggestions to make I would be interested to hear
them (other than Swim's playing - I can't do much about that!) and I'd be
very interested to hear what anyone thinks about the (obvious) differences
between the above samples?

Early days yet and a few things to sort out. I think there's some hardware
issues need resolving - I've no idea what the 'chuffa chuffa chuffa' is on
the Korg recording for instance (but I'm not bothered as it's on its way!)
and there's been quite a bit of hiss which is a bit of a mystery....??

Hi.

As subject.

I bid twice tonight on Ebay UK for different valve amps.
I left it near the last minute.

I was totally outbid bith times. Prices are outta sight
recently on there, it seems.

Anyone have a cheap, but _modern_ (manufacturing date)
one. I've done the QUAD II thing, and now I wanna try
a shiny new modern one - even if it will be an old
design in a shiny new case.

I will be interested in a power amp (or pair of monoblocs),
or a full integrated amp.

Only interested in fully working ones, with plenty of
valve life left, and in very good cosmetic condition.


I realise it's a long shot, but I thought I'd try.


Thanks.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk

"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
Hi.

As subject.

I bid twice tonight on Ebay UK for different valve amps.
I left it near the last minute.

I was totally outbid bith times. Prices are outta sight
recently on there, it seems.

Anyone have a cheap, but _modern_ (manufacturing date)
one. I've done the QUAD II thing, and now I wanna try
a shiny new modern one - even if it will be an old
design in a shiny new case.

I will be interested in a power amp (or pair of monoblocs),
or a full integrated amp.

Only interested in fully working ones, with plenty of
valve life left, and in very good cosmetic condition.


I realise it's a long shot, but I thought I'd try.



What's your budget, Martin? Is a kit out of the question?

(And how did you get in my noobie recording thread? :-)

What's your budget, Martin? Is a kit out of the question?


Low! And I have become lazy in my old age. Yes, I can wield a
soldering iron with a fair degree of proficiency, it's a matter
of I just want an amp that's ready to go, known working, and
pretty!

I might _consider_ a kit.

Basically, I can't pay more than a meagre, say, 350 pounds.

(And how did you get in my noobie recording thread? :-)

Yeah, sorry, I followed up a thread by mistake, rather than
starting a new thread.

Also, I notice you said somewhere that's you're learning
some more about building valve amps, with the help of, I
think it was, Nick Gorham (?).

I am VERY interested in learning about how to design valve amps,
but before I do that, I want one for my hi-fi, that just works.
Then I'll worry about how to design them myself. I guess the
simplest design to start off with is a Single-Ended Triode
amp - would that be right? Only one grid to worry about, and
only one power valve. Might as well walk before one tries to
run!

But for now, I just want a working valve amp for my hi-fi.


Thanks for any help or advice.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk

Fleetie wrote:

I am VERY interested in learning about how to design valve amps,
but before I do that, I want one for my hi-fi, that just works.
Then I'll worry about how to design them myself. I guess the
simplest design to start off with is a Single-Ended Triode
amp - would that be right? Only one grid to worry about, and
only one power valve. Might as well walk before one tries to
run!

But for now, I just want a working valve amp for my hi-fi.

Ok,

First up, Single ended anything is simple on paper. BUT. to actually
make it sound as you might wish, its not quite that simple. As SE is
simple everything is important. Its very dependent on the regulation of
the power supply, so either you have a complex regulated supply, or you
use choke regulation, which means big (as possible) chokes, Then the
last cap in the power supply is in parallel with the output transformer,
so you can't just use any old electrolytic and expect good results. Most
SE designes are limited in gain, so feedback is not used (avoiding that
flame war), so you need the most linear output device, which leads you
to directly heated triodes, then you have to consider the fillament
supply, DC hums less, but AC sounds better. Then its all down to the
transformer design. And so on, and thats even before you look at the
driver stage and the coupling methods.

Trust me for the moment, single ended is anything but simple....

So for a entry valve amp, go for a push pull, with a tad of feedback,
and in the price range you mention, you can either fall lucky with a
60's amp, that doesn't need a lot of work to restore (which ain't going
to happen), or you look at a kit, or something from the far east, or both.

So given that, I would suggest either

WAD kit http://www.worldaudiodesign.com/wadproducts/kel84.html which is
a very good design, near or as good as their more expensive kits.

DiyHiFiSypply Kit http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_ella.htm, which is
a very nice amp, but with duty and shipping may be above your range,

eBay far east
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=5702396 582#

But I have no idea of what this is like, or how they are to deal with.
Though this is tempting considering effort it has cost me so far
assembling bits for a SE GM70 amp.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=5702697 607

--
Nick

Fleetie wrote:


But for now, I just want a working valve amp for my hi-fi.


Thanks for any help or advice.


Martin

Just noticed from your sig you are up my end of the woods, if you want
to come and hear a couple of amps, just drop me a line.

--
Nick

"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
What's your budget, Martin? Is a kit out of the question?


Low! And I have become lazy in my old age. Yes, I can wield a
soldering iron with a fair degree of proficiency, it's a matter
of I just want an amp that's ready to go, known working, and
pretty!

I might _consider_ a kit.

Basically, I can't pay more than a meagre, say, 350 pounds.


OK, see below.



(And how did you get in my noobie recording thread? :-)

Yeah, sorry, I followed up a thread by mistake, rather than
starting a new thread.

Also, I notice you said somewhere that's you're learning
some more about building valve amps, with the help of, I
think it was, Nick Gorham (?).


Yes. He's addicted to solder (and scorched carpet) fumes......



I am VERY interested in learning about how to design valve amps,


See below.


but before I do that, I want one for my hi-fi, that just works.
Then I'll worry about how to design them myself. I guess the
simplest design to start off with is a Single-Ended Triode
amp - would that be right? Only one grid to worry about, and
only one power valve. Might as well walk before one tries to
run!

But for now, I just want a working valve amp for my hi-fi.


OK, Nick has covered everything quite nicely but I'd just add that your
budget is a bit tight for a 'shiny new modern' valve amp, even one of the
new Chinese offerings which get quite a bit pricier than the (very tempting)
start price by the time shipping charges have been added on. You've done the
'antiques roadshow' and some of the older stuff is getting expensive now
anyway - rightly so if it has been properly serviced. You're not helpless
with a soldering iron *and* you are interested in valve amp design, right???

Well, I gotta say it seems to me you're the *ideal* candidate for a bit of a
build! You've got the skills and you know you are going to get a damn sight
more bang for your bucks (if you add a little sweat) than buying a 'plug and
play' solution. I think you should also be talking to Phil Ramsey at
http://www.bluebellaudio.com/ to see how far your budget will take you - he
can supply everything you need down to the nuts and bolts and I think he
could easily offer you a complete solution (*brand spanking new* but DIY)
for the sort of money you're talking about. (But not until I've got my bits
and pieces first...... ;-)

(Says he, also waiting for a tasty little 30 watt Technics SS amp from eBay
that is allegedly mint and cost *nowt*......)

which leads you
to directly heated triodes, then you have to consider the fillament
supply, DC hums less, but AC sounds better.

Do they still make directly heated valves and surely AC would hum like
no ones bizz, or was this some wind up?....
--
Tony Sayer

"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
Hi.

As subject.

I bid twice tonight on Ebay UK for different valve amps.
I left it near the last minute.

I was totally outbid bith times. Prices are outta sight
recently on there, it seems.

Anyone have a cheap, but _modern_ (manufacturing date)
one. I've done the QUAD II thing, and now I wanna try
a shiny new modern one - even if it will be an old
design in a shiny new case.

I will be interested in a power amp (or pair of monoblocs),
or a full integrated amp.

Only interested in fully working ones, with plenty of
valve life left, and in very good cosmetic condition.


I realise it's a long shot, but I thought I'd try.

**Why would you bother buying any piece of audio equipment, without first
listening to it? You don't mention what speakers you have, so I fail to see
how anyone can provide meaningful advice, since tube amps have restricted
impedance operating ranges. Why would you just not go an buy a nice Rotel?
They make some nice products well within your price range. They'll be more
reliable, work with a wider range of speakers and provide far better sound
quality than any cheap tube amp.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Nick Gorham wrote:

Fleetie wrote:

I am VERY interested in learning about how to design valve amps,
but before I do that, I want one for my hi-fi, that just works.
Then I'll worry about how to design them myself. I guess the
simplest design to start off with is a Single-Ended Triode
amp - would that be right? Only one grid to worry about, and
only one power valve. Might as well walk before one tries to
run!

But for now, I just want a working valve amp for my hi-fi.

Ok,

First up, Single ended anything is simple on paper. BUT. to actually
make it sound as you might wish, its not quite that simple. As SE is
simple everything is important. Its very dependent on the regulation of
the power supply, so either you have a complex regulated supply, or you
use choke regulation, which means big (as possible) chokes, Then the
last cap in the power supply is in parallel with the output transformer,
so you can't just use any old electrolytic and expect good results. Most
SE designes are limited in gain, so feedback is not used

I don't know of anything that inherently means an SE design is gain limited.
The very first one I built back in the 60's used feedback from the output
transformer. It consisted if a 6J7 and a 6V6.

Ian