"Wally" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

Oops, better clear up any confusion - that ain't my work, that's a
pic of the amp I intend to build as a 'trial triode'!!

Yup, I'd gathered that an impending project wouldn't be complete yet...


....or even started, but I don't take it for granted in this group that
'impending' will necessarily be understood when a photo exists!

;-)



I need to sort this triode thing out for myself - half the world says
they're ****e, the other half says they're the very best sound
(holographic?) you can get (SE) ...

I can't help feeling that the speakers and room would have more to do with
a
sound having a 'holographic' quality than the particular type of valve in
an
amplifier.


Yes indeed. It is the absence of a humongeous listening room that I think
makes people (Japanese in particular) seek the 'sweetness, airiness, space
and holographic' properties of a sound system on a small scale. Given a
large enough auditorium any old (valve, preferably) amp capable of pushing
out a couple of hundred watts would do.....


So far as I can see, a single-ended triode o/p would be prone to
distortion if it's used to anything like its rated power. I remember
fiddling with load and bias resistors in a pin-board ECC83 preamp I was
messing about with, and was able to dial in any amount of 2nd harmonic
distortion for a given input level.


I seek only to follow you on this fascinating voyage of discovery.....



... and I sure as hell can't/wouldn't
spend the stoopid money for an exotic 'ready-made' number..!!

Nor I. I just don't need a fancy box *that* much. I've been thinking about
home-brew front panels. Apparently, in the model steam engine scene,
people
are into making little brass nameplates for their engines.They do it by
applying a resist to the brass and then etch out the design using a
chemical - like making a PCB. The pattern on the resist is made using a
computer and printer, so the layout is as good as one's PC skills will
allow
for. After etching, the cavity is filled with paint, leaving the unetched
high spots as brass. It strikes me that that could be a good way to get
clean, accurate and long lasting legends on a front panel for an amp.


No, bugger all that - if I end up with summat even remotely like the amp in
this pic.....


http://ken-gilbert.com/techstuff/bui...n_tube_amp.htm


..... I'll be a more than happy Oryctolagus cuniculus....



Assuming I don't short myself out, I'll be posting pix and and a
description of the build (f*ck-up?) when I'm done!

Take some shots as it progresses - photo of a pile of bits, case with
holes,
some of the bits in place, etc.


Wot? Like....

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keith_g/kit88/kit88.htm

;-)



(Explanation: There's a shop over in the town that sells gerbils with
more 'electronics knowledge' than I have.....!! :-)

If you can solder wire to tags and run it fairly neatly, you should get on
okay if there are good instructions with the kit.


No instructions, just the photos and a 'hot line' to Nick G!!

;-)


OK, here's what I'd really like (and probably what I'll imitate in the first
instance)....

http://www.mindspring.com/~mjh850830/loftin-white/


Gorgeous innit?? :-)

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

What's the o/p valve?

2A3

What speakers are you planning to drive with it?


Living Voice Air Scouts....***




(Figs 2 - 9 only, I suspect.) If you are interested, I've posted two
more pix of this amp:

Nice piece of kit. I like the earth buss next to the tagstrip.


If you want to take it further, contact Phil at Bluebell Audio
http://www.bluebellaudio.com/ who will supplying the circuit diagrams
and the whole shooting match for the build (a virtual 'parts kit' at
an *extremely* attractive price) and buy some stuff from him! - He's
not expensive and we need to keep these guys going in the UK!

Not planning to build one, just taking a wee interest.


Excellent, the whole point of my sounding off about this is to create
exactly that! (We need a bit more traffic in here that ain't cross-posted or
trying to sell summat!)


My hifi DIY stuff is
in a different direction at the moment - I'm currently musing over how to
make a prototype of the tapered tubular midrange speaker cabinet.


***Funny you should say that and ask the above as I'm well aware that a
low-powered amp might well lead to a 'suitable' speaker project. Although,
Ive been assured that the mooted amp will drive my Ruark Paladins (89 dB and
a really nice 8 ohm load) to perfection in a small room. (We shall
see....??)

Failing that, it'll all get ripped down and end up as EL34 PP number, but I
don't think so, somehow.....

Keith G wrote:

What speakers are you planning to drive with it?

Living Voice Air Scouts....***

Never 'eard of 'em. Basic spec?


***Funny you should say that and ask the above as I'm well aware that
a low-powered amp might well lead to a 'suitable' speaker project.
Although, Ive been assured that the mooted amp will drive my Ruark
Paladins (89 dB and a really nice 8 ohm load) to perfection in a
small room. (We shall see....??)

4W-ish a side is pretty low - what do you normally use to drive the
Paladins?


Failing that, it'll all get ripped down and end up as EL34 PP number,
but I don't think so, somehow.....

Nah, if you were going to do something with EL34s, you'd be as well to start
from scratch - you'd have to swap o/p xformers, probably PSU, and find
somewhere to fit the extra valves. Keep the 2A3 jobbie for something else,
or sell it on.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Keith G wrote:

I seek only to follow you on this fascinating voyage of discovery.....

Valves are well worth a tinker - if you haven't already, get an old
oscilloscope and signal generator.


No, bugger all that - if I end up with summat even remotely like the
amp in this pic.....


http://ken-gilbert.com/techstuff/bui...n_tube_amp.htm

I'm not keen on the wood, I have to say. I prefer the '50s lab kit' look of
the other one.


Take some shots as it progresses - photo of a pile of bits, case
with holes, some of the bits in place, etc.

Wot? Like....
http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keith_g/kit88/kit88.htm

Yeah, like that. :-)


OK, here's what I'd really like (and probably what I'll imitate in
the first instance)....

Gorgeous innit?? :-)

Aye, very nice. Like a sophisticated version of my wee breadboard pre-amp
mess-about. I used nails and ran tinned copper wire between them. Several
nails under the valve bases (splay the connectors) and tack solder
components across the various gaps - it was all laid out like a standard
schematic. I put in pots instead of fixed resistors and twiddled settings to
see what happened.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

What speakers are you planning to drive with it?

Living Voice Air Scouts....***

Never 'eard of 'em. Basic spec?


http://www.livingvoice.co.uk/airscout.htm

:-)




***Funny you should say that and ask the above as I'm well aware that
a low-powered amp might well lead to a 'suitable' speaker project.
Although, Ive been assured that the mooted amp will drive my Ruark
Paladins (89 dB and a really nice 8 ohm load) to perfection in a
small room. (We shall see....??)

4W-ish a side is pretty low - what do you normally use to drive the
Paladins?


32 wpc WAD kit PP valve amp (6550s or KT88s), EAR/Dynaco 60 wpc (6550Cs)
valves, any old amp I'm messing about with (or have on loan) at the time.


Phil of http://www.bluebellaudio.com/ who is supplying the bits promises me
normal listening at the 9 o'clock mark...???

Or it'll have to be summat 'tailor made' (100+ dB)!!

;-)

Keith G wrote:

Living Voice Air Scouts....***
Never 'eard of 'em. Basic spec?

http://www.livingvoice.co.uk/airscout.htm

Okay, so what speakers are you *likely* to drive with it? (The Paladins?)


4W-ish a side is pretty low - what do you normally use to drive the
Paladins?

32 wpc WAD kit PP valve amp (6550s or KT88s), EAR/Dynaco 60 wpc
(6550Cs) valves, any old amp I'm messing about with (or have on loan)
at the time.

Not in the 4W league, then?


Phil of http://www.bluebellaudio.com/ who is supplying the bits
promises me normal listening at the 9 o'clock mark...???

I can't help feeling that 4W is going to sound mucky before things get
reasonably loud. I get 'normal' listening at 9 o'clock on my 20wpc amp, but
it starts to lose the plot at about 11 o'clock - IOW, it starts to bug me
before it bugs the neighbours...


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

Living Voice Air Scouts....***
Never 'eard of 'em. Basic spec?

http://www.livingvoice.co.uk/airscout.htm

Okay, so what speakers are you *likely* to drive with it? (The Paladins?)


Hah! You don't believe me then?

:-)



4W-ish a side is pretty low - what do you normally use to drive the
Paladins?

32 wpc WAD kit PP valve amp (6550s or KT88s), EAR/Dynaco 60 wpc
(6550Cs) valves, any old amp I'm messing about with (or have on loan)
at the time.

Not in the 4W league, then?


Wally, I've got slam, done slam, can do slam any time I want. (Ditto all
that for 'loud' also....)

I don't need any more slam/loud - I want to hear this 'triode sound' for
myself. I'm reliably informed by a number of sources that triodes blow
everything else away and that, once heard, nothing else comes close. I won't
be looking to play my Yello or Bjork mixes at 'tit stinging' levels with a
SET - I can do that now. I'm kinda hoping that it's the Jazz/Easy
Listening/Light Classical and Classical (Hampton &
Davis/Kaempfert/Binge/Mahler) that opens up with a SET.



Phil of http://www.bluebellaudio.com/ who is supplying the bits
promises me normal listening at the 9 o'clock mark...???

I can't help feeling that 4W is going to sound mucky before things get
reasonably loud. I get 'normal' listening at 9 o'clock on my 20wpc amp,
but
it starts to lose the plot at about 11 o'clock - IOW, it starts to bug me
before it bugs the neighbours...


Sounds like you need to get the soldering iron out as well then!

(EL34s...????)

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

I believe summat like 60% of the cost price of a fancy SS amp (of
modest/mediocre spec.) is in the casework, but if that's what people
want and what sells.....???

Looking at some of the commercial valve amps available today I suspect
that
the casework of those is also quite costly. It would be interesting to
know
the actual costs for such things, but I imagine that most producers would
not wish to divulge such information.

I don't particularly have any objection to this if it what people want.
Some of my all time favourite amps in terms of appearance use wood for
sleeving, etc... If you have to look at it, it might as well look good.
;-


Couldn't agree more - if you can afford it, why not have both the looks
*and* the sound?



For innards, in my experience the costly bits were things like
transformers
and heatsinking. i.e. heavy metal. I have assumed this will be so for
valve
amps as they tend to require more in the way of transformers than SS,
although less in the way of heatsinking.


At the risk of betraying a 'confidence', I'll just hint that 'somebody' told
me less than a month ago that the chunky chromed steel knobs on a certain
range of *kits* (would you believe) actually cost more than one (if not
both???) of the OPTs on the same range!

Keith G wrote:

Okay, so what speakers are you *likely* to drive with it? (The
Paladins?)

Hah! You don't believe me then?

Any time you want to post a pic of the Air Scouts next to your other gear,
I'm up for looking at it... ;-)


I don't need any more slam/loud - I want to hear this 'triode sound'
for myself.

I wasn't meaning slam-type loud - just loud to the extent that instruments
are at a realistic level, but without the valves going heavily non-linear.


I'm reliably informed by a number of sources that triodes
blow everything else away and that, once heard, nothing else comes
close.

I'd like to know what it is about them that's supposed to make them so much
better.


... I get 'normal' listening at 9 o'clock on my
20wpc amp, but it starts to lose the plot at about 11 o'clock - IOW,
it starts to bug me before it bugs the neighbours...

Sounds like you need to get the soldering iron out as well then!

My plans are a little more involved than making a more powerful amp. :-)


(EL34s...????)

Yup. Push-pull. The inputs are sensitive and it hits 20W at about 9-10
o'clock.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Wally wrote:


I'd like to know what it is about them that's supposed to make them so much
better.


http://www.mclink.it/com/audiomatica...img/2a3crv.gif

--
Nick