In article , Form@C
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 17:17:32 +0000, Stewart Pinkerton wrote:


No, they aren't - if you want *accurate* reproduction.


Maybe not, but do you want *accurate* reproduction or an amp that is
good to listen to? I, personally, would much rather listen to 2nd
harmonic distortion rather than 3rd!

Personally, I'd prefer to listen to music, not to any added distortion at
audible levels - irrespective of its order for THD. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

OK, so you had some badly designed big speakers! BTW, it's the output
impedance that determines the 'grip' on the speakers (below resonance,
at any rate), not the power output.
--

big snip


Me - design bad speakers!..............LOL

it's the output impedance that determines the 'grip' on the speakers .....

Mmmm But then .. which amps have the lowest output impedance?

David

OK, so you had some badly designed big speakers! BTW, it's the output
impedance that determines the 'grip' on the speakers (below resonance,
at any rate), not the power output.
--

big snip


Me - design bad speakers!..............LOL

it's the output impedance that determines the 'grip' on the speakers .....

Mmmm But then .. which amps have the lowest output impedance?

David

"Roy" wrote in message ...
(...)

I would agree with Anthony. I use ATC 20s which work well from "background
muzak" to very loud indeed. They seem to suffer less from disappearing bass
at low volumes than most speakers and ATC in general are simply the most
accurate speakers I've ever heard.

I'm also on the ATC bandwagon, also with 20s (Pro's). I'll also recommend 'em. Also.

Steve.

"Roy" wrote in message ...
(...)

I would agree with Anthony. I use ATC 20s which work well from "background
muzak" to very loud indeed. They seem to suffer less from disappearing bass
at low volumes than most speakers and ATC in general are simply the most
accurate speakers I've ever heard.

I'm also on the ATC bandwagon, also with 20s (Pro's). I'll also recommend 'em. Also.

Steve.

Personally, I'd prefer to listen to music, not to any added distortion at
audible levels - irrespective of its order for THD. :-)


Just a thought
-
I have always found that power supplies in "high" (more than 50 watt)
powered amps. are able to drive the amp to just over the quoted output (for
a given distortion level) then run out of steam. All the "low" power amps
(8 and 15 watts / channel) I have owned have had comparitively massive power
reserves from the PSU which means that they will drive way above their rated
output (when abused) but with rapidly increasing ammounts of distortion (and
heat). Low power amp meeting a transient peak may, or may not, suffer the
same degree of TID but will almost certainly show far fewer power ripple
effect following the peak and will maintain composure.
One of the reasons I have always liked the sound of old Sugden amps is, I
suspect, due to the massive over-spec'ing of power supplies in P50s, A48s
etc. (although they had poor channel tracking at low levels which made for
frustration when trying to listen (very) quietly)
TID, THD - which is more obvious in the real world?

I find ALL solid state amps to have a degree of "grain" in the sound -
Possibly tube amps just bury the grain in the output t/former? (havn't
really listened to t/formerless valve amps) My MF headphone amp claims to
be valve based but I have no idea what sort of circuit is used - it
certainly sounds v. smooth fed by its 600mA "wall wart" so possibly there
goes another theory!!!!

Personally, I'd prefer to listen to music, not to any added distortion at
audible levels - irrespective of its order for THD. :-)


Just a thought
-
I have always found that power supplies in "high" (more than 50 watt)
powered amps. are able to drive the amp to just over the quoted output (for
a given distortion level) then run out of steam. All the "low" power amps
(8 and 15 watts / channel) I have owned have had comparitively massive power
reserves from the PSU which means that they will drive way above their rated
output (when abused) but with rapidly increasing ammounts of distortion (and
heat). Low power amp meeting a transient peak may, or may not, suffer the
same degree of TID but will almost certainly show far fewer power ripple
effect following the peak and will maintain composure.
One of the reasons I have always liked the sound of old Sugden amps is, I
suspect, due to the massive over-spec'ing of power supplies in P50s, A48s
etc. (although they had poor channel tracking at low levels which made for
frustration when trying to listen (very) quietly)
TID, THD - which is more obvious in the real world?

I find ALL solid state amps to have a degree of "grain" in the sound -
Possibly tube amps just bury the grain in the output t/former? (havn't
really listened to t/formerless valve amps) My MF headphone amp claims to
be valve based but I have no idea what sort of circuit is used - it
certainly sounds v. smooth fed by its 600mA "wall wart" so possibly there
goes another theory!!!!

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:06:29 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:


OK, so you had some badly designed big speakers! BTW, it's the output
impedance that determines the 'grip' on the speakers (below resonance,
at any rate), not the power output.
--

big snip


Me - design bad speakers!..............LOL

it's the output impedance that determines the 'grip' on the speakers .....

Mmmm But then .. which amps have the lowest output impedance?

Solid-state. OTOH, above resonance it doesn't matter, as they're
mass-controlled not amplifier-controlled, although a high impedance
SET amp can certainly affect the frequency response.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:06:29 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:


OK, so you had some badly designed big speakers! BTW, it's the output
impedance that determines the 'grip' on the speakers (below resonance,
at any rate), not the power output.
--

big snip


Me - design bad speakers!..............LOL

it's the output impedance that determines the 'grip' on the speakers .....

Mmmm But then .. which amps have the lowest output impedance?

Solid-state. OTOH, above resonance it doesn't matter, as they're
mass-controlled not amplifier-controlled, although a high impedance
SET amp can certainly affect the frequency response.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Jim Lesurf wrote:


Any idea what's the best way to stack ESL57's? Should they be coplanar
or focussed at the listener's head?


Bit of a can of worms... :-)

My own preference for serious use would be vertical stacking in a fairly
strong frame, but with the units angled to converge their axies at the
listening position. However acheiving this and getting good results is a
bit of challenge.

An alternative is to deliberately fire one pair off sideways at an angle,
thus ensuring the listener is well off axis at HF for one pair. This can
improve things, and is the sort of approach that ARA employed. However this
is all very room specific, so it really comes down to 'experiment until
happy or exhausted!" :-)

These days I would not personally be tempted to try this route, I'd just
buy a pair of 988's or 989's... :-) My own view is that PJW knew what he
was doing when he replaced the 57 with the 63, and the 988 is essentially
(so I understand) just a 63 with better components and a more rigid
physical assembly.


Thanks.
I might try your method or one of the following:
Isobarik.
Two rooms.
Sell a pair on ebay.
Home theatre.

Roger.