In article , Vir Campestris
wrote:

I've got a MOTU unit I use. But the reason it was bought was the ability
to record lots of channels at once; the fact that I can pull in my LPs
at 88.2/24 before claning them up for CD is a bonus.

Do you have any experience of them?


No, afraid not.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , Bob Latham
wrote:
Would you mind clarifying this 'Class' business for me please.

Note that I'm mainly taking about 'firmware' standards below. *Not* about
the different USB 'hardware' standards. People often refer to 'USB X' where
'X' is '1' or '2' etc. That is different to the USB *Audio* standards.
Confusing innit. :-)

There have been a series of 'standards' committees which have laid out
specs for the ways various device types 'should' work. This is with the aim
of ensuring 'plug and play' *without* needing 'drivers'. MS have
participated... but then tended to ignore what they decided for some years
after.

The initial set of standards for USB Audio devices was to use a specified
set of transfer/interface methods. This maxed at transfer rates which (for
stereo) limited it to 96k/24bit or (just) 192k/16bit. This came later to be
called "USB Audio Class 1'. Devices /computers which could do this were
compliant with that.

Given the need for higher sample rates, more channels, etc, a later
committee set out the "USB Audio Class 2' specs. From the user's POV this
simply extended the above so now can support, say, 192k/32bit stereo (and
higher).

Again MS had people on the committee... but then ignored implimenting this
in their OS for years. So anyone who wanted to be able to use USB Audio
Class 2 devices with Windows had to have a 'driver', long after Mac /
Linux, and indeed RISC OS users could use Class 2.

By trailing the convoy MS's behaviour meant that some pro makers like
Benchmark felt they had to stay with Class 1 to avoid studios finding they
had a problem due to a lack of drivers or an OS upgrade losing the ability
to work. Ditto for 'prosumer' makers like Focusrite, etc.

Latterly, MS finally got their fingers out of their, ... erm, ears, and
made Class 2 part of the OS. And many makers now offer either Class 2 or
being able to set the device to either Class as suits the user.


I'm just interested in recording on the Focusrite 2i2, I presume the 2nd
gen as that is what is now available using W10. How can a device record
192k/24 if its USB connection can't handle that? Where does it put the
data? Or is it simply that the ADC can in theory do 192k/24 but can't in
practise due to the USB connection?

I guess the 2nd Gen 2i2 will operate using Class 2 methods. And for W10
this should now work with no need for a driver. But I don't use Windows or
have a 2nd gen 2i2 so can only assume this is the case.

Am I correct in thinking that I need a class 2 device for 192k/24
recording?

Nominally, yes. Although some devices which are *not* class compliant at
all and need a driver may also work at 192k/24.

TBH I've only found 192k/24 useful for 'lab measurement' processes. For
things like old LPs or tapes it is well into overkill. And in reality other
factors like the noise and distortion levels, timing reliability, etc, of
an ADC or DAC will matter more I suspect. 96k or 88.2k 24bit seem to give
plenty or 'elbow room' for any prerecorded music.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 10:15:06 +0000, Jim Lesurf wrote:

====snip====


Again MS had people on the committee... but then ignored implimenting
this in their OS for years. So anyone who wanted to be able to use USB
Audio Class 2 devices with Windows had to have a 'driver', long after
Mac / Linux, and indeed RISC OS users could use Class 2.

By trailing the convoy MS's behaviour meant that some pro makers like
Benchmark felt they had to stay with Class 1 to avoid studios finding
they had a problem due to a lack of drivers or an OS upgrade losing the
ability to work. Ditto for 'prosumer' makers like Focusrite, etc.

Latterly, MS finally got their fingers out of their, ... erm, ears, and
made Class 2 part of the OS. And many makers now offer either Class 2 or
being able to set the device to either Class as suits the user.

This is a classic Microsoft 'marketing' tactic to entice their customer
base into 'upgrading' to later releases of windows. They've been using it
for the best part of a quarter century since at least the advent of
windows 95 starting with USB support (non existent in the OS itself until
winME and win2k) where the manufacturers of USB devices tended to avoid
supporting win95/win95osr2/win98/win98SE as each of those OSes were
succeeded by the next in that list. This effect continued even with win2k/
winXP (and, I suspect, with Vista/win7/win8/win8.1/win10).

It didn't really bother me that win95osr2 was left unsupported by USB
device manufacturers since USB at that time was largely implemented by
'toy gadgets' I wasn't interested in and the more serious peripherals
were still available in SCSI versions which I preferred over that CPU
cycles guzzling pig of an interface that Intel seemed to have whisked
into existence largely to drive sales of their latest more powerful CPUs
required to support both it (USBs 1 & 2) and leave just sufficient CPU
cycles left over to process the data carried over that execrable
interface.

USB standards support wasn't the only 'lever' Microsoft used to push
their customer base into committing to later versions of their windows OS
(it's just the most obvious one). Witness the fact that I couldn't use my
Kworld dual DVB-T PCI adapter for lack of driver support until after
ditching win2k for Linux Mint nearly three years ago now.

--
Johnny B Good

In article , Johnny B Good
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 10:15:06 +0000, Jim Lesurf wrote:

====snip====


Again MS had people on the committee... but then ignored implimenting
this in their OS for years. So anyone who wanted to be able to use USB
Audio Class 2 devices with Windows had to have a 'driver', long after
Mac / Linux, and indeed RISC OS users could use Class 2.


This is a classic Microsoft 'marketing' tactic to entice their customer
base into 'upgrading' to later releases of windows.

It says something arrogant about their attitude to their paying customers.

The reality is that both Apple and Linux did keep up. (And even the tiny
RISC OS got ahead of MS). So MS rely on their customers feeling that they
have *no real choice* but to put up with how MS treat them as captives. Or
are assumed to be too ignorant to even know there are alternatives for many
purposes. Some of them 'free'.

Many years ago I avoided Windows because I though it was, quite simply,
lousy compared to what I'd already used. Latterly I decided that it was
best avoided if I could because of the way it treated the people it sucked
its income from.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 01/03/2018 10:13, Jim Lesurf wrote:
Many years ago I avoided Windows because I though it was, quite simply,
lousy compared to what I'd already used. Latterly I decided that it was
best avoided if I could because of the way it treated the people it sucked
its income from.

I've been a loyal MS user since NT first came out.

They've now got to the point that they are annoying me.

I have a Win10 laptop I don't dare put to sleep, because every time it
wakes up the first thing it does is an update check. Since it's low
powered it won't do anything else for 10 minutes or so. This machine is
still on Win7, and will remain so for the rest of its life.

It so happens I'm now using Ubuntu at work, and I rather think my next
machine will be running that.

Andy