In article ,
Bob Latham wrote:
During my time in the eighties of wrestling with the sound of CD which I
will confess I didn't like, I also tried to hear the sound getting worse
on the LP as it approached the centre. Using the CD as a reference I
never noticed anything getting worse, not once. Maybe I'm just not
sensitive to that particular type of distortion.

Have you got 'Rubber Soul'? Compare 'Michelle' between LP and CD. Of
course it might not be all of those LP pressings - but even noticed it
when transcribing the LP at work. Sounded just as bad as my own copy. It's
a very simple piece - just IIRC vocal and guitar - so easier to isolate
what's on it than a more complex one.

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Bob Latham
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:

However maybe they decided to start at the 'outside' to minimise
distortion at the start of the music and give the best possible
initial impression of the sound quality.

Not for a second disputing that distortion is higher on the inner most
tracks but can you hear it?

Depends on the disc. But yes, on some classical works it can be quite
noticable at end-of-side. As Iain has said, some works have a loud climax
near the end and it then can be quite noticable.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob Latham
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:

However maybe they decided to start at the 'outside' to minimise
distortion at the start of the music and give the best possible
initial impression of the sound quality.

Not for a second disputing that distortion is higher on the inner most
tracks but can you hear it?

Depends on the disc. But yes, on some classical works it can be quite
noticable at end-of-side. As Iain has said, some works have a loud climax
near the end and it then can be quite noticable.

The "pinch effect" is audible on most vinyl,
unless the sides are short. Cutting engineers
had multiple tricks up their sleeves
whereby this could be made less noticeable.
As the velocity decreased, level was also attenuated
gradually to reduce groove lateral excursion. Just
2dB helps considerably.

On some lathes it is posible
to attenutate linearily lf and raise hf, or this
could be done manually.


That's why when doing tape to disc A/B's, the
prudent disc cutting engineer compared outer tracks.

The deterioration is very gradual, so that without
reference to the original, it may be different to detect.
There have been instances in which the running order
of albums have been changed after the first test pressings
have been evaluated for this very reason..

Iain

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:


When analogue disc recording was in development,
it was suggested that they too should play from the inside
outwards. For classical music this would have made a
lot of sense as the final movement of a symphony is
usually the loudest:-)

Yes. However maybe they decided to start at the 'outside' to minimise
distortion at the start of the music and give the best possible initial
impression of the sound quality.

Starting at the outside probably makes it easier when placing the
stylus/arm by hand, though. Easier to see what you're doing, etc.

Yes indeed. I am sure all those points were taken into consideration,
and making the best possible first impression was probably paramount.

Iain

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:


When analogue disc recording was in development,
it was suggested that they too should play from the inside
outwards. For classical music this would have made a
lot of sense as the final movement of a symphony is
usually the loudest:-)

Yes. However maybe they decided to start at the 'outside' to minimise
distortion at the start of the music and give the best possible initial
impression of the sound quality.

Starting at the outside probably makes it easier when placing the
stylus/arm by hand, though. Easier to see what you're doing, etc.

Some BBC direct cut discs did play from the centre out.

Transcriptions from the 1950's ?
NDR did the same thing.

Those I saw there were spoken word, not classical
music so I wonder what the reason was.

Iain

Once upon a time on usenet Iain Churches wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob Latham
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:

However maybe they decided to start at the 'outside' to minimise
distortion at the start of the music and give the best possible
initial impression of the sound quality.

Not for a second disputing that distortion is higher on the inner
most tracks but can you hear it?

Depends on the disc. But yes, on some classical works it can be quite
noticable at end-of-side. As Iain has said, some works have a loud
climax near the end and it then can be quite noticable.

The "pinch effect" is audible on most vinyl,
unless the sides are short. Cutting engineers
had multiple tricks up their sleeves
whereby this could be made less noticeable.
As the velocity decreased, level was also attenuated
gradually to reduce groove lateral excursion. Just
2dB helps considerably.

On some lathes it is posible
to attenutate linearily lf and raise hf, or this
could be done manually.


That's why when doing tape to disc A/B's, the
prudent disc cutting engineer compared outer tracks.

The deterioration is very gradual, so that without
reference to the original, it may be different to detect.
There have been instances in which the running order
of albums have been changed after the first test pressings
have been evaluated for this very reason..

Peter Gabriel's 'So' is one. The track order on the CD is how he wanted it
but wasn't able to on vinyl due to an extremely bass-heavy final track.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders).

"~misfit~" wrote in message
news
Once upon a time on usenet Iain Churches wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob Latham
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:

However maybe they decided to start at the 'outside' to minimise
distortion at the start of the music and give the best possible
initial impression of the sound quality.

Not for a second disputing that distortion is higher on the inner
most tracks but can you hear it?

Depends on the disc. But yes, on some classical works it can be quite
noticable at end-of-side. As Iain has said, some works have a loud
climax near the end and it then can be quite noticable.

The "pinch effect" is audible on most vinyl,
unless the sides are short. Cutting engineers
had multiple tricks up their sleeves
whereby this could be made less noticeable.
As the velocity decreased, level was also attenuated
gradually to reduce groove lateral excursion. Just
2dB helps considerably.

On some lathes it is posible
to attenutate linearily lf and raise hf, or this
could be done manually.


That's why when doing tape to disc A/B's, the
prudent disc cutting engineer compared outer tracks.

The deterioration is very gradual, so that without
reference to the original, it may be different to detect.
There have been instances in which the running order
of albums have been changed after the first test pressings
have been evaluated for this very reason..

Peter Gabriel's 'So' is one. The track order on the CD is how he wanted it
but wasn't able to on vinyl due to an extremely bass-heavy final track.

Yes. That's a well known example. There are many others.
Quite often this is seen on re-issues, or with CD and vinyl
parallel issues that have a different running order.

Iain