Despite spending much of my time recording
editing an mixing in the digital domain, one
of my favourite "music reproducers" is still a
vintage HMV gramophone.

In a radio in interview (1960's ?) Fred Hager who
had been musical director with OkeH Records from
1920 to about 1940, talked about acoustic recording
and the transition from the first vertical cuts in 1916
to lateral cut which had become the standard by
1920, at which time the record's rotation speed was
agreed - 78.26 rpm.

Then in April 1925 the first electrical recording was
released on the Victor label. This was a quantum
leap, but it is unfortunate that the shellac format hides
from the listener how good these old recordings
actually were. But digital restoration can do a
great deal to show us how they must have sounded
when the original waxes were recorded.

Here is "Chlo-E" one of my favourite early
recordings by the Duke Ellington Orchestra.

Firstly, the original 78rpm shellac recorded
from the HMV gramophone with a
thorn needle, and a Neumann U47.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/Iain.Churches/Music/Chloe01.mp3

Then my digitally "restored" version using CEDAR

http://www.kolumbus.fi/Iain.Churches/Music/Chloe02.mp3


Enjoy

Iain

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 17:06:12 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Despite spending much of my time recording
editing an mixing in the digital domain, one
of my favourite "music reproducers" is still a
vintage HMV gramophone.

In a radio in interview (1960's ?) Fred Hager who
had been musical director with OkeH Records from
1920 to about 1940, talked about acoustic recording
and the transition from the first vertical cuts in 1916
to lateral cut which had become the standard by
1920, at which time the record's rotation speed was
agreed - 78.26 rpm.

Then in April 1925 the first electrical recording was
released on the Victor label. This was a quantum
leap, but it is unfortunate that the shellac format hides
from the listener how good these old recordings
actually were. But digital restoration can do a
great deal to show us how they must have sounded
when the original waxes were recorded.

Here is "Chlo-E" one of my favourite early
recordings by the Duke Ellington Orchestra.

Firstly, the original 78rpm shellac recorded
from the HMV gramophone with a
thorn needle, and a Neumann U47.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/Iain.Churches/Music/Chloe01.mp3

Then my digitally "restored" version using CEDAR

http://www.kolumbus.fi/Iain.Churches/Music/Chloe02.mp3


Enjoy

Iain

These show an interesting psychological effect. There is almost no top
in the original music, but add a bit of hiss and crackle, and our
brains shape it into the missing sibilants (or whatever), despite the
fact that it is there continuously.

Having said that, I still prefer the cleaned version.

d

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In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
These show an interesting psychological effect. There is almost no top
in the original music, but add a bit of hiss and crackle, and our
brains shape it into the missing sibilants (or whatever), despite the
fact that it is there continuously.

Having said that, I still prefer the cleaned version.

Real fun was transferring a badly scratched record to tape and cutting out
the clicks with a razor blade. ;-)

--
*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Real fun was transferring a badly scratched record to tape and cutting out
the clicks with a razor blade. ;-)

Indeed. De-clicking was the standard procedure for shellac records
that were being reissued on LP. But they still had their shellac surface
noise which could not be removed with EQ without adversely affecting
the music.

Iain

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 00:55:13 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
These show an interesting psychological effect. There is almost no top
in the original music, but add a bit of hiss and crackle, and our
brains shape it into the missing sibilants (or whatever), despite the
fact that it is there continuously.

Having said that, I still prefer the cleaned version.

Real fun was transferring a badly scratched record to tape and cutting out
the clicks with a razor blade. ;-)

But do the job thoroughly and you could cut Wagner's Ring des
Niebelungen down to twenty minutes. So not all bad.

d

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In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

Real fun was transferring a badly scratched record to tape and cutting
out the clicks with a razor blade. ;-)

A couple of years ago I bought a number of second-hand LPs from a pop-up
shop which was in town for about six months. Typically 3 quid per LP, and
the Jazz examples proved to be in better condition than the pop or
classical ones. So I mostly bought jazz. I'm still working occasionally on
transferring and declicking them.

One was a double LP of Roy Eldridge. This has a number of noticable, very
brief. fade-out-and-in events. My impression is that someone removed clicks
by some method that simply magnetically 'wiped' very short sections of a
tape they'd made from the 78s.

Did anyone ever do anything like that? Or would it be that they'd cut and
spliced out the clicks with a noticable lack of overlap?

IIRC The LPs were from the 1970s.

FWIW I've recently been transferring and de-clicking some Ellington 'Radio
Transcriptions' discs released on Decca London in the late 1970s. These are
remarkably good compared with what you'd expect from commercial 78s from
the time (1946-7). Sadly, the shop only had volumes 1-4 so I didn't get
volume 5. But not bad for 3 quid a pop. :-)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

My impression is that someone removed clicks
by some method that simply magnetically 'wiped' very short sections of a
tape they'd made from the 78s.

Did anyone ever do anything like that? Or would it be that they'd cut and
spliced out the clicks with a noticable lack of overlap?

IIRC The LPs were from the 1970s.

Yes, I am familiar with this technique. It was known as dissolving.

The declicking method to which Dave refers was frowned upon,
(but nonetheless widely done!) and referred to as "destructive editing"
as one not only removed the click but the music underneath it.
No self-respecting editor would want to do such work, so it was usually
given to trainees, who were instructed to "keep all the bits" (which they
did,
numbered with white chinagraph pencil, and stuck to the front of the tape
machine with editing tape in the right order, until their engineer or
producer
approved the job)

FWIW I've recently been transferring and de-clicking some Ellington 'Radio
Transcriptions' discs released on Decca London in the late 1970s. These
are
remarkably good compared with what you'd expect from commercial 78s from
the time (1946-7). Sadly, the shop only had volumes 1-4 so I didn't get
volume 5. But not bad for 3 quid a pop. :-)

Those transcriptions were probably made from the original
polyacetate cuts, which were 14 inch and very low noise,
so no shellac involved.

In 1941/2 when shellac was in very short supply,
some 78s were issued on ean early form of vinyl.
They sounded rather good:-)

BTW, Jim if you are interested in early Ellington, look out for a double CD
called
The OKeh Ellington. The recording as beautifully restored and presented by
Columbia.
Highly recommended.

https://www.amazon.com/Okeh-Ellingto.../dp/B00000274L

Iain.

In message , Jim Lesurf
writes

Sadly, the shop only had volumes 1-4 so I didn't get
volume 5. But not bad for 3 quid a pop. :-)

Six copies of Volume 5 currently available via eBay :-)
--
Graeme

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

My impression is that someone removed clicks by some method that
simply magnetically 'wiped' very short sections of a tape they'd made
from the 78s.

Did anyone ever do anything like that? Or would it be that they'd cut
and spliced out the clicks with a noticable lack of overlap?

IIRC The LPs were from the 1970s.

Yes, I am familiar with this technique. It was known as dissolving.

Thanks. Previously, I'd taken for granted that in the era of tape people
would always use tape splicing. But maybe some people found 'dissolving'
easier. When listening at first it sounded like odd dropouts due to
something like dirt on the tape. But when I looked at the waveforms the
thought came to me that it was a deliberate erasure.


BTW, Jim if you are interested in early Ellington, look out for a double
CD called The OKeh Ellington. The recording as beautifully restored
and presented by Columbia. Highly recommended.

https://www.amazon.com/Okeh-Ellingto.../dp/B00000274L

Thanks. :-)

My knowledge of jazz has always been sketchy, alas. My best mate when young
was a fan of Swing Big Band music, mainly 1940s. I did learn a little from
that - but mainly the predictable Miller, Goodman, etc. For the rest of
jazz I've had to just discover particular types and styles, etc, ad hoc,
over the years. And when young could only afford an occasional LP, so
avoided risking a waste of money when there was a long list of non-Jazz
things I knew I'd like once I could get them!

So, yes, I do like Ellington, Basie, etc. But until relatively recently
knew little below the most 'well-known' names. The pop-up shop was perfect
for me as the LPs were cheap enough that I could buy a wider range and find
more things. Including things I'd assumed I might *not* like, but did.
However I also bought various Ellington and Basie LPs.

Alas, the shop was there on a month-by-month rental whilst the owners of
the property looked for someone willing to take out a long lease. I think
they actually just brought along the stuff that wasn't 'in demand'. But had
lots of unsorted boxes of jazz LPs at 3 quid a go.

A continuing problem from my POV is the lack of a decent magazine for Jazz
equivalent to something like The Gramophone or a *shop* which lists Jazz
CDs, etc. I still prefer to buy from a know dealer who I can sometimes
discuss things with before I buy. I'd prefer a local shop whose profits
stay in the economy and pays their local taxes, etc, as well. Indeed, I'd
still wish we have shops locally where I could browse for such things. If
there were, I'd buy more than I have done.

Agree with your comment wrt the Transcription Discs. I've also been
impressed by a collection of items from 'V Discs' that I bought a few years
ago.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
Yes, I am familiar with this technique. It was known as dissolving.

Thanks. Previously, I'd taken for granted that in the era of tape people
would always use tape splicing. But maybe some people found 'dissolving'
easier. When listening at first it sounded like odd dropouts due to
something like dirt on the tape. But when I looked at the waveforms the
thought came to me that it was a deliberate erasure.

In broadcast is was known as spot erasing. Some pro machines had this
facility - although more commonly used on one track of a multitrack. With
caution. ;-)

--
*We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.