On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 +0000, RJH wrote:

Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?


Some say better, some say no difference, some say worse.
Try it - it's only the cost of a bit of speaker cable! Make decent stands a
priority though. Personally, I have bi-wired a (heavily modified) old pair of
Kef Codas & I *think* they sound better. That's enough for me. It may be
just in my mind, but so what?

--
Mick
http://www.nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini information
Also at http://www.mixtel.co.uk where the collection started.
Currently deserting M$ for linux... :-)

"Form@C" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 +0000, RJH wrote:

Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous.
Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal
back to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality
of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?


Some say better, some say no difference, some say worse.
Try it - it's only the cost of a bit of speaker cable! Make decent stands
a
priority though. Personally, I have bi-wired a (heavily modified) old pair
of
Kef Codas & I *think* they sound better. That's enough for me. It may be
just in my mind, but so what?

--
Mick
http://www.nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini information
Also at http://www.mixtel.co.uk where the collection started.
Currently deserting M$ for linux... :-)

Well, thanks for all the opinions. I can't really argue with the technical
knowledge you all have, and I looked at Jim Lesurf's (I think) page a while
back and that seemed to say 'no measureable difference'. I've given it a go
with some old qed 79 strand biwire stuff I happen to have, and I'm afraid I
think it sounds a bit better, particularly extremes - bass and treble. There
could be other variables - the cable itself, or the fact that I cleaned
everything while I was at it. Being gullible isn't too bad if it doesn't
cost anything! You may note that some of Focus-JMLabs' really expensive
speakers (well, £5k) don't have biwire facility. Wonder why?

Rob

"Form@C" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 +0000, RJH wrote:

Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous.
Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal
back to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality
of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?


Some say better, some say no difference, some say worse.
Try it - it's only the cost of a bit of speaker cable! Make decent stands
a
priority though. Personally, I have bi-wired a (heavily modified) old pair
of
Kef Codas & I *think* they sound better. That's enough for me. It may be
just in my mind, but so what?

--
Mick
http://www.nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini information
Also at http://www.mixtel.co.uk where the collection started.
Currently deserting M$ for linux... :-)

Well, thanks for all the opinions. I can't really argue with the technical
knowledge you all have, and I looked at Jim Lesurf's (I think) page a while
back and that seemed to say 'no measureable difference'. I've given it a go
with some old qed 79 strand biwire stuff I happen to have, and I'm afraid I
think it sounds a bit better, particularly extremes - bass and treble. There
could be other variables - the cable itself, or the fact that I cleaned
everything while I was at it. Being gullible isn't too bad if it doesn't
cost anything! You may note that some of Focus-JMLabs' really expensive
speakers (well, £5k) don't have biwire facility. Wonder why?

Rob

In article , RJH
wrote:


Well, thanks for all the opinions. I can't really argue with the
technical knowledge you all have, and I looked at Jim Lesurf's (I think)
page a while back and that seemed to say 'no measureable difference'.

The pages I did on this should show that there *can* be a difference that
would be easily measurable. Depends upon circumstances. This does not mean
it is large enough to matter, or even be audible, though. Nor is it a
forgone conclusion that any change will always be for the 'better'.


I've given it a go with some old qed 79 strand biwire stuff I happen to
have, and I'm afraid I think it sounds a bit better, particularly
extremes - bass and treble.

If the (apparent) changes are well away from the crossover frequency then
they are unlikely to be due to the effect I modelled on the webpages.[1]
That would be more likely to stem from using cables for bass and treble
that had distinctly different series impedances, or perhaps laying the
cables together in a way that produced an interaction between the cables.

[1] This depends upon the details of the cross-over networks, though.

There could be other variables - the cable itself, or the fact that I
cleaned everything while I was at it.

You would also need to set exactly the same power levels, and get your ears
and speakers into a similar state to before to judge small possible
changes. I routinely hear differences from one day to another even when I
have not changed anything. I put this down to changes in my hearing, using
a different level, and effects like temperature and humidity.


Being gullible isn't too bad if it doesn't cost anything!

Fair enough. :-)

You may note that some of Focus-JMLabs' really expensive speakers (well,
£5k) don't have biwire facility. Wonder why?

Pass. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , RJH
wrote:


Well, thanks for all the opinions. I can't really argue with the
technical knowledge you all have, and I looked at Jim Lesurf's (I think)
page a while back and that seemed to say 'no measureable difference'.

The pages I did on this should show that there *can* be a difference that
would be easily measurable. Depends upon circumstances. This does not mean
it is large enough to matter, or even be audible, though. Nor is it a
forgone conclusion that any change will always be for the 'better'.


I've given it a go with some old qed 79 strand biwire stuff I happen to
have, and I'm afraid I think it sounds a bit better, particularly
extremes - bass and treble.

If the (apparent) changes are well away from the crossover frequency then
they are unlikely to be due to the effect I modelled on the webpages.[1]
That would be more likely to stem from using cables for bass and treble
that had distinctly different series impedances, or perhaps laying the
cables together in a way that produced an interaction between the cables.

[1] This depends upon the details of the cross-over networks, though.

There could be other variables - the cable itself, or the fact that I
cleaned everything while I was at it.

You would also need to set exactly the same power levels, and get your ears
and speakers into a similar state to before to judge small possible
changes. I routinely hear differences from one day to another even when I
have not changed anything. I put this down to changes in my hearing, using
a different level, and effects like temperature and humidity.


Being gullible isn't too bad if it doesn't cost anything!

Fair enough. :-)

You may note that some of Focus-JMLabs' really expensive speakers (well,
£5k) don't have biwire facility. Wonder why?

Pass. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:01:09 -0000, "RJH"
wrote:

Well, thanks for all the opinions. I can't really argue with the technical
knowledge you all have, and I looked at Jim Lesurf's (I think) page a while
back and that seemed to say 'no measureable difference'. I've given it a go
with some old qed 79 strand biwire stuff I happen to have, and I'm afraid I
think it sounds a bit better, particularly extremes - bass and treble.

Interesting, since it's only around the crossover that biwiring has
even the slightest theoretical advantage.

There
could be other variables - the cable itself, or the fact that I cleaned
everything while I was at it. Being gullible isn't too bad if it doesn't
cost anything! You may note that some of Focus-JMLabs' really expensive
speakers (well, £5k) don't have biwire facility. Wonder why?

So do Thiel, Dynaudio and Wilson. ATC only do biwiring terminals for
marketing reasons - and are quite vocal about it!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:01:09 -0000, "RJH"
wrote:

Well, thanks for all the opinions. I can't really argue with the technical
knowledge you all have, and I looked at Jim Lesurf's (I think) page a while
back and that seemed to say 'no measureable difference'. I've given it a go
with some old qed 79 strand biwire stuff I happen to have, and I'm afraid I
think it sounds a bit better, particularly extremes - bass and treble.

Interesting, since it's only around the crossover that biwiring has
even the slightest theoretical advantage.

There
could be other variables - the cable itself, or the fact that I cleaned
everything while I was at it. Being gullible isn't too bad if it doesn't
cost anything! You may note that some of Focus-JMLabs' really expensive
speakers (well, £5k) don't have biwire facility. Wonder why?

So do Thiel, Dynaudio and Wilson. ATC only do biwiring terminals for
marketing reasons - and are quite vocal about it!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:01:09 -0000, "RJH"
wrote:


Well, thanks for all the opinions. I can't really argue with the technical
knowledge you all have, and I looked at Jim Lesurf's (I think) page a while
back and that seemed to say 'no measureable difference'. I've given it a go
with some old qed 79 strand biwire stuff I happen to have, and I'm afraid I
think it sounds a bit better, particularly extremes - bass and treble.


Interesting, since it's only around the crossover that biwiring has
even the slightest theoretical advantage.


I can't convince myself that this may (or may not) make a difference,
but one point is that while both wires see the same voltage, the cable
to the treble posts are only carrying the current produced by the treble
part of the signal.

--
Nick

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:01:09 -0000, "RJH"
wrote:


Well, thanks for all the opinions. I can't really argue with the technical
knowledge you all have, and I looked at Jim Lesurf's (I think) page a while
back and that seemed to say 'no measureable difference'. I've given it a go
with some old qed 79 strand biwire stuff I happen to have, and I'm afraid I
think it sounds a bit better, particularly extremes - bass and treble.


Interesting, since it's only around the crossover that biwiring has
even the slightest theoretical advantage.


I can't convince myself that this may (or may not) make a difference,
but one point is that while both wires see the same voltage, the cable
to the treble posts are only carrying the current produced by the treble
part of the signal.

--
Nick

"Ian Molton" wrote in message

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000
"RJH" wrote:

bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal
back to the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the
sound quality of the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can
eliminate the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs
or an inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

Of course, if you dont have a ****ty amp, then its bull**** ;-)

If you have a modern amp, avoid tubes and ultimate cheap drek solid state,
you don't have this problem.