"Budget" hifi gear: recommendations?

Hi. Before I post can I please, *please* make a request, based on
what a week and a bit of lurking seems to suggest about the atmosphere
round here;

I'd like to get a budget turntable and a CD player, because there's
music only available on each format which I want to play. Please, could
the vinyl addicts and the vinyl bashers lay off each other in this
thread? I'd be ever-so-grateful. :-)

Now to business: I'd like to get a relatively cheap (£350 to £450
ideally) set of hi-fi separates for a fairly small room (about
four metres along each wall, I think). As such, I don't need enormous
amounts of volume.

I'd like at least an amp, a CD player (though I'm willing to consider
a DVD player, it seems a little fruitless given I have a PC which
is perfectly capable of playing DVDs and has my TV card in: given my
limited space, and the fact I'm a graduate student, a standalone
TV is probably not in my immediate future), a turntable, speakers,
and suitable cables/interconnects. *Ideally*, I'd like a cheap
DAB tuner too, but that can wait.

Am I right in thinking that I'd do better to buy separates than a
"lifestyle"/combined system in this price-range? I mostly listen to
what could loosely be termed popular music, if it sold any records;
stuff from Mogwai and godspeed you black emperor! through Wire via
the Beach Boys and the Beatles to Kraftwerk, Boards of Canada, and
Ulrich Schnauss. (I'm a student radio DJ, so I listen to a *lot* of
music.)

Any pointers to resources on the web (the websites of the well-known
hifi mags seem sadly lacking) would also be very much appreciated.

Many thanks in advance,
Andrew

--
Andrew Walkingshaw |

"Andrew Walkingshaw" wrote in message
...
Hi. Before I post can I please, *please* make a request, based on
what a week and a bit of lurking seems to suggest about the atmosphere
round here;

I'd like to get a budget turntable and a CD player, because there's
music only available on each format which I want to play. Please, could
the vinyl addicts and the vinyl bashers lay off each other in this
thread? I'd be ever-so-grateful. :-)

Now to business: I'd like to get a relatively cheap (£350 to £450
ideally) set of hi-fi separates for a fairly small room (about
four metres along each wall, I think). As such, I don't need enormous
amounts of volume.

I'd like at least an amp, a CD player (though I'm willing to consider
a DVD player, it seems a little fruitless given I have a PC which
is perfectly capable of playing DVDs and has my TV card in: given my
limited space, and the fact I'm a graduate student, a standalone
TV is probably not in my immediate future), a turntable, speakers,
and suitable cables/interconnects. *Ideally*, I'd like a cheap
DAB tuner too, but that can wait.

Am I right in thinking that I'd do better to buy separates than a
"lifestyle"/combined system in this price-range? I mostly listen to
what could loosely be termed popular music, if it sold any records;
stuff from Mogwai and godspeed you black emperor! through Wire via
the Beach Boys and the Beatles to Kraftwerk, Boards of Canada, and
Ulrich Schnauss. (I'm a student radio DJ, so I listen to a *lot* of
music.)

Any pointers to resources on the web (the websites of the well-known
hifi mags seem sadly lacking) would also be very much appreciated.

I would take a look on www.ebay.co.uk
With your budget you should do alright.

Don't spend money on snake-oil interconnects............

Am I right in thinking that I'd do better to buy separates than a
"lifestyle"/combined system in this price-range?

Yes - there are a few "lifestyle" systems (the Denon DM30/31, for
example) that can match separates for sound, but even these lack
flexibility for future upgrades.

Richer had the UDM30 in manager's specials for £120, last time I looked. It
has two inputs for upgrades, but can only call them the things it expects
to find (eg it calls my decks 'TAPE'). There are mono/stereo pre-outs for
connecting a sub or whatever. It seems to like LAME mp3/ogg, if that's your
thing.

I'd recomend one of these as neat little budget hifi, I've had mine for at
least 2 years without problem.

I mostly listen to
what could loosely be termed popular music, if it sold any records;
stuff from Mogwai and godspeed you black emperor! through Wire via
the Beach Boys and the Beatles to Kraftwerk, Boards of Canada, and
Ulrich Schnauss. (I'm a student radio DJ, so I listen to a *lot* of
music.)

Same here. Well, apart from the DJ bit.
....and BoC...

--
Jim H

In article , Julian Fowler wrote:
On 16 Jul 2003 16:45:38 GMT, Andrew Walkingshaw
wrote:

You will get better results from a dedicated CD player than from a
DVD.


I thought as much; dedicated CD players, on the whole, seem to be
cheaper as well (which is not surprising given they'll (presumably)
have a simpler transport mechanism...)

Worth comparing to the output from a digital satellite or cable system
- these carry (most of) the same channels as DAB, typically at higher
quality.

I have no access to digital satellite or cable (landlord issues, plus
I wouldn't want to be paying the monthly subscription anyway.), sadly.
It's DAB or nothing, and I'd like to be able to pick up radio somehow (I
could consider an analogue tuner, I guess).

Am I right in thinking that I'd do better to buy separates than a
"lifestyle"/combined system in this price-range?

Yes - there are a few "lifestyle" systems (the Denon DM30/31, for
example) that can match separates for sound, but even these lack
flexibility for future upgrades.

This is what I had been led to believe; I'm looking for something
substantially better than the microsystem I have presently (an elcheapo
Aiwa job which has served admirably but has never had the greatest sound
quality...)

At the risk of being a bit contentious, my suggestion would be to go
to your nearest Richer Sounds and get one of their discounted CDP +
amp + speakers packages. You can pay as little as £180 for a
perfectly respectable system, and an extra £50 will get you a very
good entry level CD player (e.g., the Sony CDXE570) and a decent pair
of stand mounting speakers (Mission M71, maybe). At that price level
amplifiers are pretty much of a muchness - you should be thinking in
terms of the inputs it provides (e.g., you'll need a tuner input for
your DAB, a phono input for your turntable, etc.).

Noted. (A TOSlink out would be nice for various reasons - I have a
MiniDisc I use to dump off audio for broadcast; I guess that would
be on the CD player itself though?) - and a line-in so I can hook my PC
up to the amp would be useful too. (I'm guessing that line-level
connections are not likely to be scarce on amplifiers, though. Please
correct me if this is naive...)

Are there likely to be problems if I ask to demo a setup at Richer
Sounds? (Furthermore, I presume it would be OK to take along a few CDs
to hear excerpts of, in the general case?)

For the latter, the Pro-ject Debut is probably about the *only*
choice in your price range :-)

Right. (Richer Sounds seemed to do an extremely cheap turntable - Bush?
- but I was assuming that for £50 it would be a load of rubbish. )
I've heard a lot of good things about that turntable.

Add in a pair of speakler stands (£25), some speaker cable (good old
QED 79-strand will do nicely - B&Q Warehouses sell a variant on this
for next to nothing), and some modest interconnects. If you've any
skill w/ a soldering iron you can make up your own interconnects; if
not, its probably worth paying £5-10 for a set, if only because
they'll be more mechanically robust than the red-and-black-plastic
ones that'll come with a CD player.

The latter; I'd probably burn my own fingers off if let loose near a
soldering iron - the last time I used one was something around ten years
ago...


Obviously, you don't *have* to buy new gear, and you *could* get much
higher-spec stuff second hand through ebay. However, if you buy new
you do have the reassurance of warranties, etc., should something go
wrong.

I'd rather buy new than go through eBay for that reason: also, I don't
have enough knowledge/confidence to buy second-hand gear unseen and
be reasonably certain it'll sound decent.

Thanks for your advice,
- Andrew

--
Andrew Walkingshaw |

Worth comparing to the output from a digital satellite or cable system
- these carry (most of) the same channels as DAB, typically at higher
quality.

I have no access to digital satellite or cable (landlord issues, plus
I wouldn't want to be paying the monthly subscription anyway.), sadly.
It's DAB or nothing, and I'd like to be able to pick up radio somehow (I
could consider an analogue tuner, I guess).

If you go for an analogue tuner the Denon TU 260 MK2 is an excellent
choice, spend a few bob on a good aerial and it will outshine DAB.
Or get a DTV freeview box as the audio on these is quite good. If your
in the right area for DTV then this is a viable alternative..

As to your other quest why not consider some second-hand vintage gear
like a QUAD 33/303 these are still very good value for the money..
--
Tony Sayer

"Oddjob" wrote in message
.. .
"Andrew Walkingshaw" wrote in message
...
Hi. Before I post can I please, *please* make a request, based on
what a week and a bit of lurking seems to suggest about the atmosphere
round here;

I'd like to get a budget turntable and a CD player, because there's
music only available on each format which I want to play. Please, could
the vinyl addicts and the vinyl bashers lay off each other in this
thread? I'd be ever-so-grateful. :-)

You'll be lucky - I like CD and vinyl but the digital bashers STILL have a
go!

snip

Any pointers to resources on the web (the websites of the well-known
hifi mags seem sadly lacking) would also be very much appreciated.

I would take a look on www.ebay.co.uk
With your budget you should do alright.


I would second that option. All of my current gear (apart from Quad 11L
speakers and interconnects) were found on Ebay. All items I have purchased
were almost brand new : -

Arcam CD82 CD player - £460 Ebay, £550 shop
Roksan Kandy Mk 3 amp - $399 Ebay, £550 shop (ex display item)

I sold my first system on Ebay. I sold an amp and cd player for £300. Both
Items were in top condition and only 1 year old. You really must try Ebay
before any shop!

MrBitsy.

"db" wrote in message
...
Don't spend money on snake-oil interconnects............

I have tried 4 different interconnects resulting in 4 different sounds from
my system. Interconnects were £60.

Well worth the money.

MrBitsy.

"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
...
On 16 Jul 2003 16:45:38 GMT, Andrew Walkingshaw
wrote:

Hi. Before I post can I please, *please* make a request, based on
what a week and a bit of lurking seems to suggest about the atmosphere
round here;

I'd like to get a budget turntable and a CD player, because there's
music only available on each format which I want to play. Please, could
the vinyl addicts and the vinyl bashers lay off each other in this
thread? I'd be ever-so-grateful. :-)

Now to business: I'd like to get a relatively cheap (£350 to £450
ideally) set of hi-fi separates for a fairly small room (about
four metres along each wall, I think). As such, I don't need enormous
amounts of volume.

I'd like at least an amp, a CD player (though I'm willing to consider
a DVD player,

You will get better results from a dedicated CD player than from a
DVD.


agreed

it seems a little fruitless given I have a PC which
is perfectly capable of playing DVDs and has my TV card in: given my
limited space, and the fact I'm a graduate student, a standalone
TV is probably not in my immediate future), a turntable, speakers,
and suitable cables/interconnects. *Ideally*, I'd like a cheap
DAB tuner too, but that can wait.

Worth comparing to the output from a digital satellite or cable system
- these carry (most of) the same channels as DAB, typically at higher
quality.


Really have to agree with this. Quality of music through Sky is fantastic,
easily up to CD quality. If you subscribe to the 'music choice' channel you
will have 50 different music styles to listen to - all music and no voice or
advertisments! Its £4.99 per month.

snip

At the risk of being a bit contentious, my suggestion would be to go
to your nearest Richer Sounds and get one of their discounted CDP +
amp + speakers packages. You can pay as little as £180 for a
perfectly respectable system, and an extra £50 will get you a very
good entry level CD player (e.g., the Sony CDXE570) and a decent pair
of stand mounting speakers (Mission M71, maybe). At that price level
amplifiers are pretty much of a muchness - you should be thinking in
terms of the inputs it provides (e.g., you'll need a tuner input for
your DAB, a phono input for your turntable, etc.). For the latter,
the Pro-ject Debut is probably about the *only* choice in your price
range :-)

Again, I totally agree with the choice of Richer Sounds. Their gear is cheap
and good. I went for a Cambridge amp and cd player for £399. VERY nice sound
through it - I have had to spend £1500 to get a nicer sounding system.

snip

Obviously, you don't *have* to buy new gear, and you *could* get much
higher-spec stuff second hand through ebay. However, if you buy new
you do have the reassurance of warranties, etc., should something go
wrong.

An awful lot of stuff on Ebay is newish and will come with the original
packaging and receipt, well worth a look.

MrBitsy.

"Andrew Walkingshaw" wrote in message
...
In article , Julian Fowler
wrote:
On 16 Jul 2003 16:45:38 GMT, Andrew Walkingshaw
wrote:

snip

Are there likely to be problems if I ask to demo a setup at Richer
Sounds? (Furthermore, I presume it would be OK to take along a few CDs
to hear excerpts of, in the general case?)

No problem at all. I went to the Watford branch and had a 90 minute demo.
Staff were knowledgable and helpfull. I took several CD's along to the
session.

snip

I'd rather buy new than go through eBay for that reason: also, I don't
have enough knowledge/confidence to buy second-hand gear unseen and
be reasonably certain it'll sound decent.

I went through 'upgradeitis' and ended up selling/buying 17 items of kit
through EBAY. EVERYTHING I purchased had the original receipt and packaging
and it was ALL in excellent condition. Everthing I sold was in great
condition too.

Everyone on EBAY gets rated for every sale/purchase so its easy to see who
can be trusted. In fact, I now feel happier about getting stuff on Ebay
because of the rating system!

There are some great bargains to be had on there - my Roksan Kandy Mk3 amp
is £550 in the shops but I got mine for £399. I went to pick it up in
person - from a HiFi dealer! He took it off the shelf to wrap it up!

MrBitsy.